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EFI For Big Blue

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85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Gary, once you are back in a powder coating mode, I have spare late lower plenum and a fairly clean Chrysler "turbo" valve cover.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

I'll email you when the time comes. My plans are really up in the air at the moment. We pick the kids up about midnight tonight and we'll see how things go in Nicaragua over the next few days.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Understood on that, I have no problem with family coming first.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Bill - The idle speed adjustment procedure is now here: Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI Idle Speed Adjustment

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Jim/ArdWrknTrk contacted me to say that he has the valve covers I need for Big Blue. They are the later ones with the screw-in PCV valve and large o-ring. Unfortunately they are somewhat corroded, so it looks like I'm going to use a new-to-me powder - Black Wrinkle. (Sorry Jim. I know you call it black crinkle, but that's what Eastwood calls it.) I know that's Jim's favorite finish for valve covers, so was pretty sure he'd agree.

I'm thinking that will hide the texture the covers will have due to the corrosion. And, it'll give some contrast to the Silver Lining (bright aluminum look) of the upper and lower plenums. In fact, I think I'll use that powder on the throttle body, fuel rails, and thermostat housing as well.

And, speaking of the thermostat housing, I spent some time filing the gasket surface this afternoon and still have some work to do as Huck's housing was pitted.

Also, you may remember that I twisted off one bolt in the lower plenum when removing the t-stat housing on Huck. I got to thinking about that today and decided I want to go with stainless when I put Big Blue together this round. So I sent Totally Stainless a note to see what they have for the EFI engines. Their web page says they have kits for Ford big blocks with "cast valve covers" as well as kits for them with "sheet metal valve covers". I'm pretty sure I know what they mean, but asked them to make sure.

I also asked about stainless exhaust manifold bolts. They list header bolt kits for the 460, but not kits for exhaust manifolds, which I plan to run. So I measured the existing bolts and studs and asked what they have. I'm thinking I may display them at the show.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Doing a lot of cleaning and putting away in the shop in an effort to get back on Dad's truck. But, as I find things I sometimes work on them a bit so they are closer to being ready to go when the time comes to EFI, which I think will be immediately after the show. One of those things that I worked on today was the thermostat housing. As said, Huck's was pitted and the one on Big Blue isn't to my taste, so I worked most of the pits out with a file and sandpaper. It isn't perfect, but it is plenty good enough.

And, while working on the mating surface I realized that there were some really sharp edges inside that would disrupt the coolant flow, so I used the Dremel to smooth them out. And, while the Dremel was out, I cleaned up the parting lines outside. Then, when the mating surface was good enough I put it away in a baggie in a tote - ready to be powder coated when the time comes.

Then I realized that the radiator support needs to be ready when the time comes, and it certainly isn't. If you don't remember, the "mechanics" that Vernon found in Florida hacked the core support up when they installed the engine oil cooler. It is just amazing that they did it the way they did it, but did it they did, so I have to replace the core support. Fortunately Jonathan brought me one last Sept, and the only minor problem it has is a few small cracks. I plan to weld up the cracks this week, and then take it up to John, my paint/body man, who will have it media blasted and then will paint it a satin black.

Now if I could get Core Tuning to call me so I can buy their package I'd just about be ready to DO IT!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Worked yesterday on the radiator support. There were several small cracks and I used a narrow cutting wheel on the Dremel to open them up for welding. I'm not sure that was a good idea as that made it even easier to blow a hole in the metal - and that metal sure is thin and easy to blow holes in. But I finally got the welder dialed in and have most of the cracks welded up and hope to finish them tomorrow. And then I'll take it up to John for him to have media blasted and then he'll paint it satin black.

And the valve covers came in from Jim/ArdWrknTrk today. I haven't had a chance to compare, but they look quite a bit different than the ones off Huck's engine. But tomorrow I'll run them through the parts washer and maybe get a chance to media blast them a bit to see how they'll clean up.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

As said, the valve covers that Jim pulled from the 1995 F450 came in last night. I ran them through the parts washer this morning to get the goo off, and they came out nice and clean. And then I put the more-corroded one in the blast cabinet to see how it would clean up. Here's a shot of it with its brother that hasn't been blasted. I'm quite pleased as there's enough texture for the powder to grab but not enough to show through the powder. I'm still going with wrinkle/crinkle black, but I'm not sure it would be necessary.

As for the differences between the early and late 460 EFI valve covers, here's a shot of the early ones above and the late ones below. Easily seen is the grommet for the push-in PCV valve on the early cover vs the screw-in PCV valve on the later one. There are at least two other differences. One that is visible in this shot is that the little "lands" that the wire retainers go into, shown in the top left of the shot, are bigger on the earlier covers. And, those holes on the later covers are tapped 8-1.25mm while the early ones aren't tapped.

Here's a shot of the other difference, although you really can't tell in the pic. Anyway, the groove for the o-ring is deeper on the later valve covers. Here are the measurements:

Early Covers: .162" wide x .162" deep (E7TE-6583-EE & E7TE-6583-EE)

Late Covers: .162" wide x .234" deep (F5TE-6582-BA & F5TE-6A505-DA)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Have been doing some searching for gaskets, and drilled down on the Fel-Pro site to this page for a 1995 Super Duty w/a 460. As it turns out, there's a different valve cover gasket/o-ring for trucks under 8500 GVW (VS 50067) as opposed to trucks over 8500 GVW (VS 50474 R).

I'm going to guess that the valve covers with the deeper groove take the over 8500 o-ring and the shallow groove take the under 8500 o-ring. Boy, it sure would be nice to have the 1990 - 99 master parts catalog so I could look these things up.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I’m glad Jim had the right valve covers for you Gary!

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

ArdWrknTrk

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I'm glad these are going to work out for Big Blue.

You sure have done a wonderful job cleaning them up!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Thanks. It did take some cleaning, but it wasn't all that difficult.

My parts washer runs Simple Green at 130 degrees, which does a good job of taking off sludge, but not coke. The covers off of Huck were coked up inside and that's why I left one soaking overnight, which stripped off some of the plating. Fortunately these covers just had sludge, and a bath in the washer with the lid closed started melting the sludge out, and a bit of agitation with a brush finished the job - both inside and out.

Then a trip to the media blaster cleaned the outside of the passenger's side cover. It did take quite a bit of blasting as I'm using a really fine media and it doesn't work very quickly. But now I know that the covers are going to be just right, so now that they are clean I can tuck them away with all the other parts I'm placing in totes to free up space to start working on Dad's truck.

(That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In reality I was itching to clean them and blast them to see how they'd turn out. Besides, that's a lot more fun than cleaning the shop.

)

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch. Had just moved the trailer out for a run to my neighbor's business in T-town to pick up some surplus pallet racks, and had used the front-mounted hitch - I'm loving that thing.

Got done with that but had noticed that there is a lot of clunking going on during sharp transitions so while standing outside I turned the key on to release the steering lock to check the frame at the steering box - and I turned the switch a teensy bit too far. Just a quick tap, but couple a gigantic battery, a PMGR starter, a T-19 in creeper gear, and a BW1356 in 4Lo, and it started. Moved about 3' before I could get it stopped.

No damage done to anything but my ego, but man that was scary! I really, REALLY have to fix that. There is no clutch safety switch and there's a jumper plugged into the connector. But, it is a jury-rigged connector, not a factory one as if it had originally had an auto. So, while I'm up under there changing out the brake pedal for the hydro-boost one I'll have to install a switch.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Gary, several years ago, I found (2) of the factory clutch safety switches [NOS]. One was installed on my 1986 and you got the second one. See if you still have it or the box... that will provide the needed numbers.

Gary Lewis wrote

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

David - Yes, I have the switch, and thanks to you, again, for finding them. But I can use it for Big Blue instead of on Dad's truck since Dad's is going E4OD. I just need to figure out how to get up to where the switch goes to install it. As you can see from the drawing below, it goes at the top of the clutch pedal and requires a contortionist with little hands.

I'm thinking the time to do it is when the brake pedal comes out to swap in the hydro-boost pedal. If I were to pull the whole pedal assembly I could check/replace the bushings, swap pedals, and install the switch on the bench instead of upside down on my back. And since the pedal assembly is held in with bolts that secure the brake booster, which also is getting changed out, that would seem like the time to do it.

And, while I'm at it, maybe I'll pull the steering column and go through it. I recently discovered some slop in it, and that may be contributing to the imprecise steering.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Gary Lewis wrote

I'm thinking the time to do it is when the brake pedal comes out to swap in the hydro-boost pedal. If I were to pull the whole pedal assembly I could check/replace the bushings, swap pedals, and install the switch on the bench instead of upside down on my back. And since the pedal assembly is held in with bolts that secure the brake booster, which also is getting changed out, that would seem like the time to do it.

And, while I'm at it, maybe I'll pull the steering column and go through it. I recently discovered some slop in it, and that may be contributing to the imprecise steering.

Peeling the onion's layers?

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Yes, while peeling you might as well get the layers you can reach.

As for EFI'ing Big Blue, I've been trying to talk with the guys at Core Tuning for some time, and finally talked to both Ben and Adam yesterday. Adam and I discussed which cable/connection arrangement to use, but at the end of the conversation where we were talking about this the connection got really poor. I believe he said:

Quarterhorse: This arrangement connects to the programming port on the back of the EEC box. It allows for instantaneous changes, but has a battery that needs charged periodically. Or, you can burn an EPROM with the parameters when you finally get it working.

Mongoose: This approach connects to the OBD-II port and lets you data-log as well as program.
But programming takes maybe 45 seconds as you are writing the whole thing into the computer instead of just the single parameter you want to change.

Bill - You have the Mongoose - right? I think that's the way for me to go, but just wanted to check.

Also, both Adam and Ben talked to me about a wide-band air/fuel monitor. (The O2 sensors on the factory EFI systems are narrow band units and really only tell the computer if the AFR is below or above the goal of 14.7:1. So it is hard, if not impossible, to use them to accurately tune a system. Enter the wide-band units that actually tell you the precise AFR.)

I have an AEM unit, but they don't think AEM's are very accurate as they usually read rich. But I think mine reads quite lean as on David's 300 six we saw an AFR of 17:1 and the engine was running fine. So, I want to find out what they recommend, which I think is Innovate. However, the AEM and Innovate units appear to communicate in different methods, so that will change the interface I need for data logging.

Anyway, there is a bit more to find out before I buy, but I am making progress.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ray Cecil

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary,
Granted I haven't read through the entire thread...may I ask you why you aren't using an aftermarket self learning EFI system? Why use a factory setup?

1988 F250 Supercab Longbed 7.3 IDI, C6, 1356, GEARVENDORS, 4.10 Sterling with autolocker

1986 F150 302, C6, 9" 2.75, Wood Flatbed

1986F150Six

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Ray, Gary does most everything to make it easiest for his heirs to be able to maintain his "creations". Factory is more likely to have some form of long term support [even though through forums, etc., rather than through Ford].

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Amen, brother! Couldn't have said it that well, so thanks David.

My son likes vehicles, but more driving/using them than working on them. And my daughter views vehicles as necessary to get from Point A to Point B. Who knows what their kids will be interested in doing with regard to maintaining vehicles. But I've come to realize that the chances of any of them finding a guru with carbs is pretty small, and the chances of one of the being that guru is slim to none.

So I came to the conclusion that going EFI was the best approach for them. But, with the research I've done I determined that the churn in aftermarket EFI systems is such that today's system is outdated tomorrow, so the odds of finding parts or a guru on a several-years-ago model when needed also seemed slim.

That turned me to Ford's EFI systems. However, the earlier ones, like the EEC-IV's, didn't have OBD-II ports and were speed-density and bank-fire systems. But, 1996 was the year that OBD-II was required, and with the help of guys on here I now have factory 1996 EFI systems for both Big Blue and Dad's truck. That means that when problems arise a tech somewhere can plug his standard scanner in and be told what the problem is, and standard Ford parts can be used to fix it.

And, on Dad's truck there's an added advantage - the EEC can also control the E4OD tranny. Otherwise I'd have to buy a standalone tranny controller in addition to the EFI system.

The downside to the EEC-V system is that you have to tune it somewhat as while it can learn it needs to be fairly close in the first place. Hence the need for Core Tuning and their s/w and h/w.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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EFI For Big Blue

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Early Covers: .162" wide x .162" deep (E7TE-6583-EE & E7TE-6583-EE)

Late Covers: .162" wide x .234" deep (F5TE-6582-BA & F5TE-6A505-DA)

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Quarterhorse: This arrangement connects to the programming port on the back of the EEC box. It allows for instantaneous changes, but has a battery that needs charged periodically. Or, you can burn an EPROM with the parameters when you finally get it working.

Mongoose: This approach connects to the OBD-II port and lets you data-log as well as program. But programming takes maybe 45 seconds as you are writing the whole thing into the computer instead of just the single parameter you want to change.

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Mongoose: This approach connects to the OBD-II port and lets you data-log as well as program.
But programming takes maybe 45 seconds as you are writing the whole thing into the computer instead of just the single parameter you want to change.