EFI For Big Blue

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
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I'm into the fuel rails and have realized that I have two different rails & pressure regulators.  In fact, the regulators are apparently the only difference in them.  Here are the regulators I have:

1990 F250: F4CE-9C968-AA  3 screws and only one o-ring to seal the output

1995 F450: F4SE-9C968-AA  2 screws but two o-rings to seal the output


Here's what they look like on the bottom side.  I can refurb either rail, but need to understand the differences in regulators and decide which way to go.  Note that both have '94 prefixes on the ID #.  


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Pulled the intake (lower plenum), heads, and pan off of Huck's 460 today and cleaned them up.  Here's the pan starting to be cleaned:




And here's the pan and accessories after cleaning.  I'm not 100% sure I'm going to blast and powder coat the pan, but I probably will.




As for the dipstick, it is the later o-ringed style, and I'm pleased with that:




I also discovered that the intake gaskets were either the wrong ones or put on incorrectly as they are up to 1/4" off, blocking part of the intake port.  This engine was very poorly put together.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I had some pretty significant problems getting the heads off of the engine.  Four of the head bolts were on so tight that my Harbor Freight Earthquake XT impact, which is supposed to be good for 1000 ft-lbs, would not remove them.  I pulled out my big breakover and finally got them loose, but one of them took absolutely everything I could do to break it loose.

And even when I got them broken loose they fought the air impact all the way out.  In fact, when the threads cleared I still couldn't pull them out.  The only way I got them out was by pulling up on an open end wrench under the flanged head as I spun them with the impact.  When I got them out they looked like this.  What in the world??????


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

ArdWrknTrk
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
E7 heads with F3 gaskets.

I would say the threads in Huck's block need replacing.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
RE, valve covers, first I was wrong on the size, they are 3/8" heads. On the covers, early ones are an E7TE number, later F5TE.



Grooves - early 0.160" deep, later - 0.200" deep. The O-ring gaskets are keyed differently so supposedly you can't mix them up.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
How about F3 heads with E7 gaskets?

As for the block, I'm not going to use it but I wonder if the bolts might need to be replaced?  I've cleaned the threads and then seem ok, but those bolts were tightened way beyond the torque spec.  Way beyond.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Bill - My valve covers are E7's and have the 160" groove.  Is there a way to tell an F5 from the outside?  I'd like to find a pair of them.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
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The right side should have the screw in PCV valve, and if it hasn't been intercoursed with they should match.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok.  Got it.  Thanks.

Any comments on the fuel rail question?  Or, maybe I should say the fuel pressure regulator question?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
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I need to look at the three I have here before I reply.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok, thanks.  I've Googled and Googled and haven't come up with any discussions of which is best.  The 3-screw one, from the '90 F250, is in better condition and might not have to be media blasted and powder coated.

The 2-screw one has surface rust and has to be refurbished to be used.  But, with the nylon tube between the sides, that appears to be a problem as I don't know how to replace those lines.

So, if the 3-screw one is acceptable, that's my preference.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary, I went and looked at (a) the one on Darth, (b) the one on the new engine and (c) the spare. What I found was the three screws from the bottom, rail PN on regulator mount area is: E9TE-GA which tells me it is probably the second generation rail (first from 1988-1989 would have had the supply and return near the front). The one on Darth and the spare appear identical (I didn't try to read the number on Darth's) PN on the regulator mount is F4TE-EA and the sticker on the spare has F6TE-FD and 09-12-95 on it.

Pictures attached.

Darth's fuel rail:


New engine fuel rail from top:

From side:


Spare fuel rail from top:

From side:

Label:
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - Thanks for looking.  I agree with you, there was another rail that had the fuel lines coming in up front.  Here are the ID #'s for that one and the ones we have, with notes:

1988 F-Series with front fuel line connections & 3 screws: Part # E8TZ 9F792-C and ID # E8TE-CA

1990 F-Series with rear fuel line connections & 3 screws: Can'd find part #, but ID # E9TE-CA

1995 F-Series with rear fuel line connections & 2 screws: Part # F4TZ-9F792-E & ID # F4TE-EA

So Darth is running a 2-screw pressure regulator and the new engine has a 3-screw.  Any idea which is better?  I can go with either, but the 3-screw fuel rail is in better shape.

Oddly enough, Amazon has the 3-screw regulators at $62.78 and the 2-screw regulators at $50.98.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary, the two screw is the updated design and the regulator mounting screws are accessible from above. If I needed to replace one I would want it that way. I will probably after looking at these use the later rail on the new engine.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Good point.  I was balancing the later design with that one taking more prep, but the fact that the screws are on the top makes it worth it.  Thanks.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Had an interesting day with Big Blue today, as outlined in WHYDTYTT.  But, realization has set in that with what is going on with our family over the next few months I'm not going to get Big Blue EFI'd.  Given that, I fixed the fuel leak so I can use him to help some people move on Saturday.  It was the 6-port valve that was leaking, so having only one tank I cut it out and spliced the lines together with a Dorman kit.

And, along the way I realized how easy it will be to splice the halves of the fuel rails together.  All I have to do is to use a piece of the larger supply fuel line from the kit.  The fuel rails have barbs on them just like the splices in the kit, so that will be easy - when the time comes.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Jim, that actually looks like I saw on Darth's engine when I swapped heads, the 4 outer bolts next to the exhaust ports get hot enough to "coke" any oil on the bolts. If I remember correctly the two end inboard bolts have the oil return holes there and get pretty sludged up.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Interesting.  That would explain why they were so hard to get out.  And the threads appear to be good.  Would that also make the bolts seem like they were way, way over-torqued?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Yes, I used a long breaker bar and a "cheater" to break them loose on Darth.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Good to know.  Depending on how the ones come out of Big Blue's engine I might put them back on there and let these go with Huck's block and Big Blue's heads when I sell that setup.

And, I'll probably media blast the Eddy intake and sell it and the 750 Eddy carb to recoup some of my costs.  Oh yes, and the headers.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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