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EFI For Big Blue

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Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Talked to Eric Weingartner tonight. He's the one that flow tested the D8OE's I ported a few years ago, and he recently did a pair of heads for Brandon. He doesn't port cast iron heads any more, but that's ok as he'll do a 5-angle valve job on these, deck them to make sure they are flat, do the guides and seals, etc for about $300 if I caught all the numbers he was telling me.

Of course there may be bad valves, but I didn't notice any of them leaking today, so maybe not. In any case, he will make them bolt-on ready and turn-around is two weeks. I have a plan.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Let me know if you need me to hunt one down in the junkyard for you Gary. I may even go in the morning. I like to waste a couple of hours there before running business hour errands in town.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Yes, please look if you are going this morn. It only takes a 3/8" wrench to get them off. And I'll bet this is the common one as it appears to be original to Huck, which was a 1990 F250.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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I will have a look Gary. I know there are at least 3 or 4 EFI 460’s that I know of, probably more. I should be able to get one for you.

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Thanks! And if you see a pristine throttle body on one of them I'd like that as well. I have two of them, but neither are shiny enough to put with that upper plenum. And I'm not sure blasting and powder coating one is a good idea, although maybe if I disassemble it.

Anyway, shiny, new, pristine, etc.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary. I believe if you check they are metric and use a 10mm wrench.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I do have an extra TB as I am using the later "do not clean" one from a 1995 or 1996. It is already apart and I can send you the bare body so you can do your clean and powder coat on the body and then transfer the parts from yours cleaning and coating as you go. I thing this one has a good adjustable throttle stop screw. FWIW, very early, 1988-89? models did have a water heated throttle body and up to a point the casting still had the undrilled passage areas in them. Apparently Ford decided it wasn't needed and did away with it. The vestige shows up in the E4OD models as the 3/8" bypass line.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Oops! Probably right. I just grabbed a 3/8" and it worked nicely. Obviously the threads are well lubed, so the bolts came out easily. But, otherwise the wrong wrench might have been a problem.

Boy, talk about varnish! The inside of those valve covers are/were awful! The good one is in the parts washer with Simple Green sitting in it as I type. Hopefully the overnight soak will loosen that stuff and it'll come out easily this morn. But my plans for blasting and PC'ing the covers along with the lower plenum today are obviously not going to happen as I'm down one cover. Hopefully I'll at least get the plenum done and the one cover cleaned, if not blasted.

It is amazing how time-consuming it is to blast the lower plenum given all of its nooks and crannies. Every time I thought I was done I'd spot something else. Then, when that was done came the daunting task of masking it off as powder on the mating surfaces isn't good, and powder where the injectors go is probably not a good idea. And there are the sensor ports, which should have powder in them either.

Ran out of the high-temp plugs as well as time yesterday, so decided to get the uppers done and be able to tick that box for the day. So I can pull the plugs from them and use them on the lower plenum today - after I mask everything else. But I hope to have another shiny pic to show tonight.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Hmmm. That raises lots of thoughts, questions, etc. First, Huck had a tee in the heater hose with a smaller line going somewhere. And, he had an E4OD. Is that what you are talking about?

Second, the TB from the '95 F450 says "Do not adjust" on a label. Is that the same thing you are talking about? Is there a dimension that the throttles are supposed to be held open? I realize the IAC supplies air, but maybe there is a standard?

And, are these like carbs? Meaning, they are precision parts, but if you are careful you can pull the butterflies, shafts, etc and clean them, PC them, and reassemble? I have two TB's, so could do that. Maybe black to compliment the plenum?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Yes, there is a standard, the "Do Not Adjust" is the keep someone without the correct procedure and tools from screwing with it.

The standard on these is a minimum air flow which is set Engine warmed up, Shut off, Unplug IAC (which leaves it closed), Start engine, Set base idle, Shut off, Reconnect IAC. I do not think it was in gear, but it might be.

I think on Darth it is 650 rpm, normal idle in the BE software is 750.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Bill - Lots of questions. First, here are three shots of the two throttle bodies I have. In this first one you can see that the one on the left, which was from the 1990 F20 (Huck) has a flange on the left, and I'm wondering if that is the casting you mentioned where the heater was? Also, note that the one on the right, from the 1995 F450, has holes in the throttle blades while the other doesn't. Obviously that would change how far open the blades need to be to achieve that idle speed w/o the IAC working.

So, you think it would be reasonable to trim the staked screws and remove the throttle blades, pull the TPS, pull the shaft and linkage, and then blast and powder coat one? Would you use the later one w/o the extra casting but with the holes in the blades?

Here's another shot of the side showing that extra casting and the spots that might have been the ports:

And here's the other side:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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I would wash them carefully first, the 1995 is what Ford called an "anti-sludging" design. I can't read the label by the screw but it is probably like mine. The anti-sludging ones I believe were Teflon coated on the inside bores, so you would not want to destroy that.

Yes, the dummy passages would have been the water lines. One pressed in fitting was on each side, but I am not sure that piece is even on the 1990.

Yes, the one with the holes is the desirable one to use, that's what is on Darth currently, once I can find (a) the exact angle for the cable location and (b) a suitable intake system, I will be using a V10 throttle body as it's bigger.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Here are the labels:

And here are the bores. I have the '95 TB apart, and can cap things and then blast the outside. How hard is it to get the seals for the shaft?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Got the lower plenum powder-coated:

And then mated the two plenums for pics and kicks:

Now I have the thermostat housing and a bunch of fasteners to do. But the lower plenum took the most time due to all the masking involved. Very time-consuming.

And then there's the valve covers. I knew I needed the passenger's side one since it is broken, but looks like leaving the driver's side in hot Simple Green all night stripped off a layer of corrosion protection. But, it got it lots cleaner. Anyway, I think I need a pair of them now.

And, here's the tops for comparison. The o-ring groove is .160" deep and .160" wide. So, Bill, can the HD ones be installed where these LD ones were? Are they better due to the bigger o-ring?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Difference is the O-ring depth and PCV valve style, yes they are interchangeable as a pair (only so you don't need two sets of gaskets). The reason for the deeper groove was so the O-ring didn't get cooked as badly and would still seal. The coating you are worried about looks like gray engine paint that came off. Suggestion on them, remove the retainers so you can take the steel bolts out of the aluminum covers and save the seal washers.

Interesting side note, Ford was having problems with sealing on those and the cast aluminum oil pans on some of the 4 cyl engines. NNS, through our service subsidiary, Newport News Industrial, got the job of testing the components and sealing methods which is probably where the deeper O-ring groove came from. I have a pair of incompletely machined 460 valve covers left over from that, one has a small piece of the reinforcement rib removed for a chemical analysis by the Baird Atomic spectrometer.

Next time I go over there, I will see if I can grab them.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Pretty sure I removed a layer of protection because what is showing is copper. So they must have electroplated the inside of the valve covers. I could powder coat the inside, but might as well just get a good pair.

As for the bolts, I've taken them out of the clean cover, but two of the seals are bad. Is there a good source for them?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Not that I know of, I do not think they were serviced.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Interesting. Maybe the to-be valve covers will have good seals on the bolts?

So, how 'bout the bearings in the throttle bodies? Any tips on removing them so I can reuse them after I blast the housing and PC it?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I have to admit the intake looks pretty mean with the plenum attached to it.

Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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I'm thinking a black throttle body attached to that will make it even better.

Also, the chrome on the fuel rail from the '95 F450 is rusted in many places, and the 1990 fuel rail from Huck, while better, isn't presentable. So, I'm thinking I'll blast Huck's and PC it black.

But, the fuel rails are actually a left rail and a right rail with plastic line connecting them. Obviously that line shouldn't be put in the oven, so does anyone know how to or what with to replace it?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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