EFI For Big Blue

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EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
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We've been kicking this around in Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding, and I've been planning for it on my whiteboard (project) called Upgrades For Big Blue.  But now seems to be the time to start a thread specific to the EFI'ing of Big Blue.  So, here goes.....

On Saturday I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Ben Head and today I spent about an hour on with Adam Marrer - both of Core Tuning.  With their help as well as that of Bill, I think I can make this happen - both on Big Blue as well as Dad's truck, albeit later, after I learn on Big Blue.

In today's call Adam convinced me that their Direct Flash package is the way to go for my needs.  That will allow me to change the tuning parameters via the OBD-II cable so I won't have to have access to the PCM, which makes placement easier.  And, he answered a whole bunch of my questions - although he said I'm over-thinking it.  Me???  

Anyway, here are some of the questions and answers:

Transmission: Since I'm running a manual tranny I can use a PCM for an auto and turn the tranny off with their software

BOO: He thinks it would be good to give the PCM brake on/off so it will know that the brake is or isn't applied and can adjust accordingly

The 460 had a crankshaft sensor that was only for detecting mis-fires.  Apparently it was mandated by the government, but isn't needed as the distributor gives #1 timing, so their software allows for it to be turned off.  Which is good because I don't have that sensor.

And, their package allows turning lots of other things on or off, including EGR, Evap, etc

PCM: I need a PCM for Big Blue, so he asked me to send him a list of the PCM's I have.  He'll look them over and see if he thinks that the one Ray sent me from a 5.0L w/a 4R70W will work if I turn the tranny code off.

Adam says that my AEM wideband meter is very suspect.  He has a serious setup and has measured many widebands, and his tests show the AEM to be frequently off one way or another.  But, I'll need something for tuning, so for now I'll plan on using the AEM.  However, he said that I shouldn't put it at the wye in the exhaust.  That's because one bank will run leaner than the other and there's not much I can do about it.  But, sampling at the wye confuses things, so put the bung further up on one bank or the other.

With that done I turned to the air inlet plumbing.  Mark found only part of the plumbing when he got the harness, and Bill said that the right plumbing is hard to find since a MAF 460 is a rare thing.  But, I got lucky.  Here's a shot of Huck's plumbing on top with a combo of what Mark found plus two of the hoses I got from Jim on the bottom.  As you can see, they are the same length, and what Mark found was exactly what I needed.  Further, the two hoses from Jim (1995 SD 460) are the same as the ones in the same position from Huck, the 1990 SD 460.  So, it looks like any of the SD 460's would have the right small hoses, but you'll need the hoses and wye from a MAF 460 if you don't want to mix and match parts.




And, here's the same plumbing from the bottom side.  Bill - If the bung on the SD plumbing at the H is the IAC input, then that must be what is on the wye for the MAF.  I think I can use the SD IAC hose even though the MAF connection is a bit further toward the air box because the hose looks like it'll stretch a bit.

And, that makes the bung further up on the MAF plumbing the PCV connection, which on the SD setup went to the side of the airbox.  So, since all airflow needs to go through the MAF sensor they moved it out, and I'll have to find that hose.



Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
Just knew you would put those ECU's to good use!

Wish there was support anywhere near local to me like you have found at Core Tuning. I do have an advanced scan tool that is supported out of the European market. Works well for maintenance on my various Ford vehicles with OBDII, but no ability to modify parameters. Are the Core folks planning to attend that September meet? (As if I needed another reason to make plans to attend.)
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I really do hope to use both of them.  Sure would make things easy.  

As for Core Tuning, I'm not using them in a "local" mode - yet.  And, given what Adam told me today, I don't think I'm going to have to.  But, they are making all the right noises about providing support, and Bill got a lot of support from them.  So I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with their support.

On them being at the show, I hope so but don't have a commitment - yet.  But I'm working on it.  I've talked to both Adam, who is in NY, and Ben in OKC.  Adam said today that he'll check, but he knows he has one commitment in September already.  And Ben seemed quite interested.  So, if you are interested in meeting them maybe they'll see your comment and make it happen.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, IAC is the nipple on the side, crankcase closure hose is the one on the wye.

Here is the complete CA inlet hose set.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I wonder if I could reverse it.  As said, the IAC hose will fit where the PVC hose is supposed to go.  I know 'cause I checked it on Huck.  So that would just leave connecting up the PVC.

So, what is the "filter" in the crankcase hose?

On the other hand, if I just had a 1990-on master parts catalog I could look the parts up and buy them.  But, at first blush I haven't found one in DVD format, and the paper formats are ~$100.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
The "filter" is in the IAC line, and I suspect is a muffler to eliminate any "buzz" from the IAC cycling.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I was wrong - IAC line.  Hmmmm.  I'm looking through various sites for the hoses.....
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Good luck! I did run Darth without the muffler at first, didn't seem to make any difference.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, check this out:

Funny story about the Y-pipe, it was  on the engine of the truck in the next stall on the 2nd trip, & this was in there too.  I don't why I grabbed it, but I think it's a match from Bill's picture.  I'll ship it with the bracket and connector I found.

Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Mark, you are correct, that is the IAC connector hose for an MAF 460. Now if you can just stumble across that elusive misfire detector tone ring.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Mark - Wow!!  Excellent!

Bill - As for the misfire detector, why do you want it?  I'm sure Adam told you what he told me - it isn't needed.  But you have me worried.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
I just wanted to add it so I would have it on there. BTW, I found a polygroove Saginaw pump setup for Darth.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Dyn Blin
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Believe me, Bill- when I do, it will be gift wrapped with a bow!
Sonoma County,CA
1982 F150 Flareside XLS
NP435 4x4
351W Motorcraft 2150

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I'm jealous of the Sag pump.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Ford F834
Administrator
Gary Lewis wrote
Bill - I'm jealous of the Sag pump.  
What years/applications had this? 460 vans? If I know what I am looking for I can keep an eye out Gary.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + DNE2 overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I don't know, but probably in the vans.  However, I'm going with hydroboost, so would either need to have a Sag with the extra connection or braze an extra connection onto the tin reservoir cover.  That's doable, so if you find one please pick it up and I'll pay you.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
In reply to this post by Ford F834
460 vans/cutaway chassis (motorhomes) would have them. The A/C compressor sits in the same location as the Ford pump version.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - Do the Sag's bolt into the aluminum bracket where the Ford pump bolts?  In other words, is the bracket the same?  I already have one good bracket, but the one from Huck is broken so it wouldn't hurt to have another in order to have a pair to sell at some point.

Also, Bill, how did you mount your airbox to the fender?  Could you show some pics that help me understand how to get around some minor issues I see.  For instance, here's a shot of Huck's fender with the airbox bracket in place:




And, here is the fender w/o the bracket, with red marker where the bracket goes:




Last, here's Big Blue's fender.  I'm pretty sure the hole circled in the upper right is where the bracket will go, and I think that will work as the leg of the bracket will go behind the battery.  And, there's a circle below that roughly where the bottom screw goes.  Further, I've put a circle about where the rear screw will need to go.  But, I've drawn straight lines on a bit of a problem as that piece protrudes into the engine compartment and will hit the bracket.

So, did you have to shim the bracket away from the fender?  And, obviously I'll have to yet-again re-home the washer/coolant bottle.

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Gary, I don't think the Saginaw pump uses the same bracket, the Ford pump has three bolts at 120° spacing, every Saginaw I have seen they are irregular in spacing and depth.

On the air box, I used the 1990 front clip, so I can't help you there. The air box mount is also the washer fluid tank and radiator tank assembly mount. I will get some pictures if you need them tomorrow.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - Well, if the bracket is different that makes the decision easier - I'll need both it and the pump.

And, pics would help as I do have to figure out how to put lots of things in the same space.  

Jonathan - If you run across it, great.  But don't go too far out of your way as I do have two pumps, one of which should be good.

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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