EFI For Big Blue

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
While I would like to have those things re-drawn, I don't think I can spare the time.  But, I could add the pages for those items.  Lemme see what I can do.  And thank you.

Also, you might want to check your email.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
Gary, something on the previous page is crashing on my various devices here. Can display everything up to the drawing just posted?
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

sgauvry
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary -

Just came across this. It requires you leave your in-tank low pressure pump in the tank to make use of the fuel level sensor.  You've likely already come across it, but in the event you didn't, I've attached the instructions page to the unit.

Steve

hpf-40019.pdf
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks
Browser problem with Chrome.

Anyways, managed to find the drawings using my Android phone with a different browser.

Are you trying to accommodate the 6 port valve instead of the dual function reservoir? Also, I don't understand the purpose of the oil pressure switch/fuel cutoff relay, etc.
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by sgauvry
Ray - I'm not having problems with Page 3, but if others are then maybe we need to find out why.

Steve - Thanks, but one of the reasons I'm going with Ford's EEC-V system instead of an aftermarket system is that the aftermarket manufacturers drop products readily.  So, while that pump would work now, I'm doubting it would be available later - when it fails.  I'm trying to build something that my offspring can maintain for decades, and I don't think aftermarket products are compatible with that goal.

Again, thanks.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks
Glad you found the problem.

As for your questions, I think you are looking at the as-is schematic.  I'm going from that toward the 1996 version, but now I have to figure out how to integrate them.  However, the oil pressure switch, the 6-port valve, etc are going the way of the Dodo bird.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
I think I see the problem. Looking at the fuel controls on the EVTM page, I see they are not complete. There really is not a good diagram of the EFI version. In reality, the controls are very similar to your 1996 drawing with the addition of the frame mounted pump which would be powered from the R/Y wire between the inertia switch and the tank selector switch.

Nonetheless, since you will be going with the later pumps and eliminating the dual function reservoir, it becomes something of a moot point.
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

sgauvry
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
That's smart.  I should do the same.

Thanks!!

Steve
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks
Steve - I'm a visual person.  I need to see what I am working on - especially with something as complex as this is.

Ray - I'm confused as I don't see a bit of resemblance between the 1985.5-6 7.5L wiring and the 1996 7.5L wiring.

Are you referring to the 1985.5-6 5.0L wiring?  I've added the page from the 1985 EVTM below.  And it is very similar to the 1996 wiring.  


Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
This post was updated on .
Yes, that is exactly what I would expect.

The 85.5/86 7.5L wiring is for a carbureted truck. I had no way to wrap my thinking around how this was to be used with EFI.

Are you thinking that you may want to modify the existing Big Blue wiring to accommodate EFI? If so, you could do away with the oil pressure sender, resistance wire and fuel pump cut off relay along with their various power feeds.You would substitute the EFI fuel pump relay output, (configured through a relocated inertia switch) for the power feeds PK/BK to the tank selector relay and the R lead to the fuel tank selector switch. This also would be the point to supply power to the frame mounted HP pump. The tank selector valve would have to be 6 port to accommodate the return lines and you still would need some sort of reservoir before the frame mounted HP pump.

Of course, if you are going to the later in tank HP FDM's, you only need to wire it like the later truck. I'm pretty sure they use the same switch on the dash and all the wiring changes would be in the harness. This does away with dual function reservoirs, frame mounted HP pumps, selector valves, etc.

I'm probably overthinking this. Best approach would be to replicate the 86 5.0 EFI wiring, (eliminating the frame mounted pump and the 85 6 port valve) and you would be good to go with the later FDM's.
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I'm thinking of modifying Big Blue's wiring to go EFI.  My plan is to go with the 1990ish FDM's.  But I'm using the 1996 engine compartment harness, so the fuel pump relay will be in that, and I can do away with the 1985 fuel pump cut-off relay, 6-port valve, frame-mounted pump, oil pressure switch, tank selector relay, etc.

I wonder if I should get an 85.5-6 5.0L EFI fuel tank harness.  Or, let me see what I have from Huck......
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, I just realized that there's a big difference between the 1985 and the 1986 EVTM's on the fuel system wiring.  The 1985 has a 6-port tank selector valve and the 1986 doesn't.  I think I remember Bill saying something about this, but it went right over my head.

The 1986 is really close to the 1996, with the obvious difference in that the '86 has a high-pressure pump and the '96 has a computer.  But another subtle difference is in the pin-out on the fuel tank selector switch.  So off I went to the catalog and I found that they appear to take different switches.

I wrote this up on the Fuel Systems Wiring page, and I'd appreciate it if you could take a look and tell me what I'm missing.

Here's the 1985 wiring for the 5.0L EFI:




And here's the 1986 wiring for the 5.0L EFI with dual tanks:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

NotEnoughTrucks
That is 100% clear!

Of course, there is a lot about fuel systems yet to cover, but the focus of this project is EFI for Big Blue.

I recently sent my 86 EFI wiring harness to Steve and I am pursuing later model wiring for my Frankentruck, but the actual routing of the tank wiring seems to be included in the body and chassis wiring. I think the 86 wiring is still on the chassis of my truck and the cab wiring is intact minus the EFI harness. I recall the fuel pump relay was mounted low on the driver's side firewall on the engine side and I can't recall where the inertia switch was located on the 86, but I know it's on the firewall inside the cab, just above and to the right of the transmission hump.

I'm finding a lot of the reasons I chose 87 and up components for my Frankentruck are echoed in Bill's write up on Darth. I really should start my own white paper. The fuel tank wiring on the later trucks runs in and out of the cab through the firewall connector. Relay and tanks of course are on the outside and selector and inertia switches are on the inside. The 86 has a similar layout, but wires are run through grommets in the firewall rather than a connector like the later models. I know the later model integrates the wiring into the dash wiring harness, but I think the bullnose trucks may have a separate harness because of all the variants? I will see if I can find some clues in my old cab if this weather ever warms up.
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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
If you have the '86 tank wiring then I'd be very interested.  But I'm not in a hurry.  However, assuming it is the 5.0L EFI that I think it is, it would almost be plug & play.  I think.

As for the later wiring, I've been combing through Huck's and found that I have all of it, albeit in pieces.  I have the tank wiring, but the rear tank connector is cut off too close to allow splicing.  And that harness was cut from the underhood harness, but it would be easily spliced.  Then it goes through the bulkhead connector into the dash harness, so I'd have to splice at that connector.  However, it then runs, along with lots of other wires, and finally comes to the tank switch.

So, with some splicing and a new tank connector I could have a the tank wiring to plug into the switch.  However, if you have the '86 stuff in good shape then it should be easier and cleaner.  Again, absolutely no hurry.  I know it is COLD up there!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
I believe I sent you the original tank/rear chassis wiring from Darth.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary. I believe I mentioned that yesterday or maybe Monday. The 1985 EVTM was probably an early release before the actual EFI system was in production since it was a mid-year change, I would suspect that an update to that manual was released either by a TSB or manual update notice once the EFI production started. I have never seen a 1985.5 EFI truck without the reservoir and the system the 1985 models have. Look at your parts CD and see if the 6 port valve even shows up on the 1985 EFI engines, I will be very surprised if it does, because lack of the reserve capacity in the tank selector/filter/reservoir would have the Bosch HP pump starving for fuel. If the 6 port valve was adequate, why would the to LP pumps be needed? Mercedes used to have a Bosch pump back outside the tank that was low down where it could get fuel, I suspect the tank may have been baffled around the pickup to help make sure it didn't pull air in. FWIW, the 1987 Chevy trucks (first year for TBI) had a cup inside the tank that the pump stuck into, Chrysler did the same on their first TBI/MFI engines and had a jet on the side of the cup the return fuel went to so the cup stayed full.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I'm getting myself confused, but I think you are saying that all the EFI'd 5.0's had the reservoir/switching valve and not the 6-port valve as shown in the 1985 EVTM.  Is that correct?

Also, wouldn't Darth's harness just be a longer version of the one that's already in Big Blue?  Meaning it would be set up for the 6-port valve.  Right?

That's why I'm interested in a 5.0L EFI harness since it should plug right into the tanks and the tank-selection switch.

What am I missing?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

85lebaront2
Administrator
Yes, I have never seen an early EFI without the reservoir. I actually had an 85.5 to repair, it wouldn't run because the ground plug was corroded. Once I fixed that it started right up and ran fine.

Wiring, yes, pretty much so, I had actually sent that for you to use when you weren't sure what had been intercoursed with on Big Blue.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
And I thank you for that.  Want it back?  Or do you want me to keep it in case you need it?

As for the 5.0L EFI harness, it is almost a slam-dunk.  If you look at the wiring diagrams below you can see that I'll have to remove the power to the high-pressure pump.  Beyond that I don't think there are any other changes.  





Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis
Administrator
And, in case you are wondering about it, I realize the connections to the tank selection switch are quite different from the 1996 to the 1986 drawings.  But since I'll be using a complete harness intended for the 6-pin switch, it will work - assuming Ford didn't change the connection order on the pumps and sending units.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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