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EFI For Big Blue

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Bruno2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

I should have hit the inside of Bill's too. I was worried about scoring up the gasket surface though.

Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

It actually took a lot more than media blasting to get mine clean. I used the Simple Green in the parts washer and a few different brushes to get a lot of it. Then the CRC brake cleaner, which got some more. So I tried the O'Reilly's brake cleaner, which got more. All in all I used way more than a can of brake cleaner on that. And then I took it to the blast cabinet.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Do you want an extra lower to powder coat? I have at least one spare, but need to look at the PN, there is a change in 1992.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Difference? What difference? I have a '90 and a '94 - I think. (Was the truck Jim parted out a '94?)

Let's find out the differences as I already have two so probably don't need another.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

1995, I think the PN changed from an E7 or E8 PN to an F2 PN. According to AllData the PN for a 1990 is F3TZ-9424-E so it must have changed. They do not give the PN for 1988 or 1989, but your parts CD should have it. The one on the new engine has F2TF-9K461-BA cast on it which I believe is the later casting

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Catalog shows: 88/ E-F250/350 8 460 EFI E7TZ 9424-G Lower

I'll check the two I have in the morning and let you know. And, you are right, it was a '95 F450 so may have a different lower plenum. But I know the uppers are the same as they have the same ID number on them, although different casting date codes.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

The two plenums I have are indeed different:

Huck's 1990 F250 shows RF-E8TE-9K461-DA and that should be part # E7TZ 9424-G

Jim's 1995 F450 shows RF-F2TE-9K461-BA and that should be part # F3TZ 9424-E

So, what's the difference? Which should I use? I've done some cursory Googling and didn't find anything definitive.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

I don't know specifically what the difference is, but the fact that it came out with the F3TE heads might be the reason. I have an F3TZ-9424-E on the new engine as it has the RF-F2TE-9K461-BA casting number.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Good point. Since I have the F3 heads I'll go with the matching intake - although those heads are currently mated to the earlier intake.

Ok, next question: which injectors? I just pulled the ones out of the '95 F450's intake and they are F1TE-D5A's, but the ones in Huck's '90 intake are E8TE-B1C's. I assume they are both 24 lb/hr injectors. Both are blue. Is one better than the other? What size injector should I go back with?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

24 should be adequate, I was going to go with 30s but the Ford racing (best ones according a Chevy EFI guru) are NLA so I had to go to 47s. Depends on what the engine will actually need.

The newer ones might be a little better, but whichever I would send them to be rebuilt and tested.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

I can't imagine needing more than the 24's that were in the F450's engine. This engine will be fairly stock, and will either continue to have the Eddy cam or something a bit stronger.

So, next question: Should I buy new ones or have these refurbished? I've seen single new ones for about the same price as whole sets on eBay. And at $20/injector to refurb & balance, I wonder.......

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Your call on that, Matt sent me a link one time to a fellow on eBay who does them for the Mustang 5.0L engine. He didn't have any 30s at that time. The determining factor is duty cycle needed for the engine's fuel requirements, anything over 85% at WOT is pushing the limits of the injector coils. Too big and you can get overfueling with a stock computer as it's program is expecting a certain size injector and in open loop bases the pulse time on that value, too small and you will lean out at WOT high RPM, sort of like pulling more fuel from a carburetor than the pump can supply.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

After a trip to the back 40 to clean that thing out the extractor worked much, much better. But then the feeding of the media wasn't working well. After a bit of investigation I discovered that the media hose is worn internally such that it kinks if you tilt the nozzle very far. Once I figured that out and got things working I was able to get the intake cleaned up fairly well. Still need a bit more work, and then it'll be time to bake a couple of uppers and one lower in the oven for a bit.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

What is that intake for?

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-------- Original message --------

From: "Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts]" <[hidden email]>

Date: 4/17/18 6:58 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: Bruno2 <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: EFI For Big Blue

I think I'll be happy with 24# injectors.

As for what I did today, I spent the day working on the F450 lower plenum I got from Jim. Started by pulling the fuel rail, injectors, and sensors off and then running it through the parts washer to get the oil and as much of the exhaust soot off that I could. Don't want that stuff in the media as it then plants it in whatever you are blasting.

Then it was off to the blast cabinet - and the fighting began. First, the dust extractor wouldn't. Just wouldn't. So I started investigating, and found out why: <img class="smiley" src="http://n8.nabble.com/images/smiley/smiley_blush.gif" onmouseover="imageMousePointerUpdate(true)" onmouseout="imageMousePointerUpdate(false)" id="1524012351436">

<img src="http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n10029/Blast_Cabinet_Filter.jpg" border="0" onmouseover="imageMousePointerUpdate(true)" onmouseout="imageMousePointerUpdate(false)" id="1524012351436">

After a trip to the back 40 to clean that thing out the extractor worked much, much better. But then the feeding of the media wasn't working well. After a bit of investigation I discovered that the media hose is worn internally such that it kinks if you tilt the nozzle very far. Once I figured that out and got things working I was able to get the intake cleaned up fairly well. Still need a bit more work, and then it'll be time to bake a couple of uppers and one lower in the oven for a bit. <img class="smiley" src="http://n8.nabble.com/images/smiley/smiley_wink.gif" onmouseover="imageMousePointerUpdate(true)" onmouseout="imageMousePointerUpdate(false)" id="1524012351437">

<img src="http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n10029/Lower_Plenum_Mostly_Blasted.jpg" border="0" onmouseover="imageMousePointerUpdate(true)" onmouseout="imageMousePointerUpdate(false)" id="1524012351437">

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Big Blue. That's a 460 EFI lower plenum.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

I see where the injectors go now. Really looks like a carb intake.

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-------- Original message --------

From: "Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts]" <[hidden email]>

Date: 4/17/18 8:18 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: Bruno2 <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: EFI For Big Blue

Big Blue. That's a 460 EFI lower plenum.

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

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Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

That would be a big carb!

I have plugs in the injector bungs to protect them. I initially cleaned the plenum with walnut hulls, including down into the injector bungs, as walnut hulls won't pit the aluminum. But it also didn't get it clean, so I changed to the coal slag like you used, and it is so fine that it doesn't really texture the aluminum.

In fact, I think that's what's clogging the extractor. I think the coal slag is too fine or too dirty and it is clogging up the filter. Think I'll have to change media and see how that works.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Got a bit done today. First, I had a thought that maybe Huck's engine, which has the later heads, had been replaced replaced at some point and might be in good shape. So I ran a leak-down test on it. The pic below shows the equipment connected, and you can see the high-side gauge is setting at 100 psi, and the low-side gauge is at 72 psi. So, there's a 28 psi loss, which is actually quite a bit of loss. Unfortunately, that turned out to be the best cylinder, and from there it was 64, 60, 58, 56, 56, 18, and 16.

Fortunately all of the leaks appear to be to the sump as I didn't detect any leakage out the exhaust or intake.

But there's something else shown in the pic. What do you see if you follow the arrow on the second, or low-side, gauge? Notice all the oil? How can that be since the EFI 460's have valve covers with o-rings for gaskets?

Well, here's why. (Sorry for the poor quality pic.) Yep, there's a corner broken out of the valve cover, and it let the o-ring bulge out - at the worst possible place, meaning the lowest spot so the oil will run out. Anyone have an extra EFI cover?

Meanwhile, I heated two uppers and one lower plenum up to 400 degrees in the oven for two hours to drive off the yuk embedded in the pores. And there must have been quite a bit of it as I had to open the doors to the shop due to the smoke. But after they cooled down I washed the uppers, masked them off, coated them, and then baked them to cure the powder. Here's the one with the EGR port:

And here's the one that endured the lumpectomy:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Left or right side Gary, and how deep is the O-ring groove? There are two different EFI 460 VCs, regular and heavy duty, two differences, regular has a shallower O-ring groove and a push in PCV valve on the right. Heavy duty has a deeper groove and a screw in PCV valve.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Passenger's side. But I'll have to check on which version I have. Will do in the morn, Bill.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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