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EFI For Big Blue

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Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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Yes, I remember the Apple problems. But I have a later app for my iPhone as well as an ELM device that worked fairly well on Russ' Suburban and our Subie.

Having said that, I doubt it can do what the Direct Flash Cable can do - write to the PROM on the ECU. So I'll use that cable to connect the Windows machine to the ECU for data logging and tuning. And I'll probably have another cable from the Arduino that will plug into the OBD-II port to monitor various things as I drive. Or, I could use an Arduino with wifi capabilities and use an ELM wifi dongle. But I don't really like the idea of having wifi emanating 24x7 from the truck, so like the hard-wired idea better.

As for changing yours over to OBD-II, that's a significant undertaking. Bill's the one to tell us how hard it is, but you'd need a harness and an ECU out of a truck just like yours but with EEC-V. Anything 1996 and later should be V, but I've heard that there were some prior to that as well. Plus you'd need the MAF, air inlet tubing, and maybe another O2 sensor as well as other sensors. Basically you'd need a donor '96 or later truck. I'm not sure the view is worth the climb.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

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FWIW, I do not try to do anything like that on my phone, (a) damn screen is too small (b) iPhone lightning port requires an adapter to USB, then you would need the software installed to do anything.

I used a dual boot MacBook Pro when I was setting mine up, I still have it but the battery is bad, I put the new one that Apple had installed in Mary's similar one (same year span) but it won't charge. I have a new (2018) HP wide screen laptop and a newer MacBook, the one with no optical drive and only 4 thunderbolt ports. I do have a Thunderbolt to USB adapter, but that gives me only 2 USB 3 ports.

On updating a 1993 truck, 1994 is the year Ford went to MAF/SEFI on the 5.0L automatic trucks, they also went roller cam and changed the firing order. Essentially, the updated wiring can be gotten from a 1994-96 F150 as far as the sequential EFI goes, front harness, first, 1994 also brought air bags, so the front harness has a lot of extra wiring and may not match the cab harness in the 1993. I think I have a 1995 front harness and may have a 5.0/5.8L engine harness. This will still be OBD-I, but I have heard there is an EEC-IV to EEC-V jumper harness, haven't seen one though. Fiveology has an OBD-II kit for the trucks and actually did a 7.5L conversion for someone in the 429/460 group on Facebook.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Bill - I'll be using this Microsoft Surface tablet for my in-truck logging and tweaking. However it only has two USB ports so I'll have to use a USB spliter to accommodate the Direct Flash Cable, the one to the Innovate wide-band, and the Core Tuning dongle that's needed to let Binary Editor work. But Adam has assured me that a splitter works fine for that.

In the shop, while I'm learning and getting my head around things, I'll use the Windows 8 desktop. I already have it running Binary Editor, as described above,t but now need to do the same on this one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

That is what I do, I have a 4 USB port I use, so I can have everything I need connected, Dongle, Mouse, Mongoose and Innovate.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I now have a running ECU!

I rang out the test harness and everything was good with one exception - Vehicle Power. Turns out that my switch of choice, a marine grade 30A pull switch was flaky. But, since it is the only one I have that is easy to tell if it is on or off, I pulled out the CRC QD Electronic Cleaner and shot it full. A few pushes and pulls and it started working properly.

Then I added the Harbor Freight fuse/ammeter, hooked the rig to a 5AH battery normally used in a trailer brake system, added a battery charger to that, and hooked the test harness up. As expected, there was no current w/o the ECU. So I added the YAZ3 ECU, which came from a '95 w/a 4R70W. Then, with the "key" switch on I saw .2A. Then I added my ELM wifi dongle to the OBD-II port and turned the "key" to On. The current jumped to .3A and I got a wifi signal.

Then I fired up my scanner app on my iPhone and discovered that it is reading a Ford OBD-II ECU that runs an SAE J1850 PWM protocol at 41.6 Kbaud. And, oddly enough, the MIL is not lit and there are no trouble codes outstanding.

Then I discovered the Terminal function of the app where I can send the ECU specific commands, as explained here. So I sent it "0100" which is "In mode 01, what PIDs are supported?" And the answer came back: 416B 1041 00BF 9FF9 10C9. I'll have to see if I can decode that.

Then I asked it what the engine RPM is by sending "010C" and got back 416B 1041 0C00 00DC. Again I'll have to translate that.

But, the bottom line is that:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: EFI For Big Blue

That's great!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Sounds good to me! If you hook a distributor up you can get an rpm signal into it using an electric drill.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

85lebaront2 wrote

Sounds good to me! If you hook a distributor up you can get an rpm signal into it using an electric drill.

True, but I don't have the input pin on the ECU connector do I? Hmmmm, I'll have to look at that, but I don't remember mapping that one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

I'm not sure if there will be better info for today, so I'll take the time while I'm waiting for over 5000 binary files of calibrations to Binary Editor. Yes, over 5000.

Anyway, I got the registration dongle as well as the Direct Flash Cable in the mail today. Guess what - the DFC says Mongoose on it in big letters. So there's one mystery solved - the Mongoose Package shown on the home screen at Core Tuning is apparently the Direct Flash Package shown on the "shop" page that you go to when you click on the Mongoose Package. However, I haven't as yet been able to reconcile the fact that on the home page it is $649 and on the Shop page it is $629. Glad I ordered from the Shop page.

Then I set about getting it to working. However I ran into problems and texted Adam, who then remoted in and took over the shop PC. But, after quite a while he was also stumped. So I suggested we use this tablet since it is what I'll ultimately use anyway in the truck and it is Win 10 while the shop PC is Win 8.

So he got off and I went through the steps, I think, and got Binary Editor loaded. But when I said "update" it came back with a list of over 5000 calibrations to load, and here I sit while it goes about it in the background. We just counted down to less than 1000 left, so we shall see. And when it gets done I'm to get Adam back online.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Morning update: Adam wasn't available yesterday afternoon given how late I finally got all the updates done. But we may get to work on it a bit today, although both of our schedules are a bit hectic.

However, I've been poking around in Binary Editor trying to familiarize myself with it. I loaded up the calibration for the YAZ3 box that is for a 1995 5.0L w/a 4R70W, which is the one I have connected to the test harness and have been looking through it. But, to this point I don't think I've gotten the box to talk to Binary Editor.

Nonetheless, I'm gobsmacked at how many parameters there are in the box. It is just absolutely mind-boggling.

So, let me give you a taste. Here's a screen shot of the spark information. Just note the number of folders/files on the left that have information. I've opened the Base Altitude Spark file, which I think is the spark advance in degrees on the X axis, and engine load on the Y-axis.

However, look at the info in the box in the lower right, which is shown much larger in the following pic for those of you on itty bitty screens. That is the calculation the computer goes through to determine the engine spark advance. In other words, it takes into account the barometric pressure, the Engine Coolant Temp, the amount of EGR, the Air/Fuel Ratio, combustion noise (could that be spark knock?), IMRC - whatever that is, and the Dashpot - whatever that is. AND THAT IS JUST THE SPARK ADVANCE!

YIPES!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: EFI For Big Blue

A search found Intake Manifold Runner Control.

https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/trouble-shooter-july-2009/

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

grumpin

Re: EFI For Big Blue

I'm assuming Dashpot is the throttle device. Used on manual tranny vehicles.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

In reply to this post by grumpin

Interesting. Thanks! So it is set up to change the timing on engines with various inputs that the 5.0L doesn't have. Cool.

As for dashpot, did some of the engines with EFI have them?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Gary Lewis wrote

Interesting. Thanks! So it is set up to change the timing on engines with various inputs that the 5.0L doesn't have. Cool.

As for dashpot, did some of the engines with EFI have them?

I don't know.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Well, I had a session w/Adam this morning where he remoted in and set up Binary Editor. It was like drinking from Niagra Falls. Soooooo much washed over me and very, very little got absorbed. Or even adsorbed.

But, he set up the YAZ3 box, which was a 302/4R70W, to be a '96 spec 460 w/a manual tranny. Then we turned off things like Canister Purge and EGR. Which led to a discussion of ignition timing. My understanding is that having turned off EGR it will no longer add several degrees of advance to the timing when the EGR is on.

Then we discussed knock sensors, and he said he wouldn't run one on these engines as they don't work. So, I'll have to fine tune the ignition timing to the particular compression ratio I end up with as well as the Performer cam that's in the engine. Which means I'll have to find someone with much better ears than mine to ride shotgun. (Steve - Last year when Scott and I went after Huck he pointed out that the engine was pinging a LOT. I couldn't hear it.

)

But, I have a very good starting point from which to begin the tuning - Ford's stock tune for a '96 460! It should not only start but run pretty well with that, and then I can fine tune it from there.

Adam also set up logging so that when all of this goes together I can log it real time. Both from the EEC-V system as well as the Innovate wide-band AFR meter. At this time the only actual input that is functioning is Vbat, and it as a waveform that runs from 12.63 to 12.79 volts.

Anyway, I'M DANGEROUS!!! Maybe even EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. And, since I'm retired does that mean I'm RED?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

If I remember correctly "Dashpot" is related to the IAC control and primarily for automatics, but will effect emissions on a manual trans. It basically opens the IAC on a sudden throttle blip to prevent stalling, just like a mechanical dashpot does by delaying the throttle closing.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Ok, but I don't have a dashpot. Does Darth?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

It is in the code for the tune if I remember, not an external mechanical one.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: EFI For Big Blue

Administrator

Duh! A dashpot created via software. I'm with you now. If the engine stumbles after blipping the throttle I could try that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

grumpin

Re: EFI For Big Blue

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

85lebaront2 wrote

If I remember correctly "Dashpot" is related to the IAC control and primarily for automatics, but will effect emissions on a manual trans. It basically opens the IAC on a sudden throttle blip to prevent stalling, just like a mechanical dashpot does by delaying the throttle closing.

That's cool!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

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