Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum

E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Classic

List

Threaded

397 messages Options

1 ... 45678910 ... 20

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Hmmmm

Well, that's what cutoff discs and mig welders are for.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

No, I don't, mine is custom harness that came with my 3G 160 amp unit. Besides, the only connections from the alternator harness to the rest of the front harness are at the hot post on the starter relay and the green/red circuit 904 ignition exciter wire.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Yes, but I had the parts from the 90 F250 parts truck to use.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Ok, thanks. By the way, Dan sent me an email and I'm responding. He may have info I need for the EFI'ing.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Bill - More ?'s on the tranny build. Do you have a way to get the outside of the case really clean? I ask because I want to paint it and that means all the stuck-on dirt, grease, etc has to be off. So, if you don't have a way then I could media-blast it before shipping it. I would protect any openings as best I could, but when you disassemble it you could get any grit out that had gotten in. Then, when I get it back I could wash it, gently, and paint it.

What about upgrades? Are there any that should be or could be added? Is the original torque converter adequate?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

I no longer have a good way to clean the case, I used to carry them to Bert's Transmission's in Newport News, actually I used to do the rebuilds in his shop, he would lay everything out for me when I was doing a Mercedes-Benz one for him. I can ask Kerry Tittermary when I get back if he has a good way to clean something that big.

Torque converter, nothing special, but it is recommended it be replaced with a good reman unit.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Bill - If you can find a place to get it really clean then wonderful. But I can media blast it to clean it up here, making your job easier.

Got it on the torque converter. If you don't have suggestions I'll look around.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Folks - Should I create a new thread for the EFI'ing of Dad's truck? I can see we could keep this one and another going pretty easily. And I could transfer a number of these posts there.

Bill - Is there really a reason for me to sign up with Core Tuning? If you can do the programming, I could buy a cpu from you and you could program it before sending it to me. Or, is there a lot of programming that needs to be done to tune things?

All - I've been emailing with Dan Lee, whose engine is the one shown in the previous picture - the one Tim built. Dan says the intake is the biggest issue with EFI'ing a Cleveland. So, that's something we should discuss. I can see at least three options:

Use a Cleveland intake with Price Motorsports Cleveland/M-block adaptors machined to take the injectors.

Use the existing Weiand intake on the engine and machine it to take injectors. But, since it is a dual-plane intake that puts the injectors at different levels, if not different angles, and makes creating a fuel rail difficult.

Use a 351W EFI lower and upper intake. Tim said he's always wanted to do this, and Price makes adapters to bolt a 351W intake to M-block heads. Tim suggested machining off the thermostat housing.
Here's a couple of pics:

Thoughts?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Gary, I can do a preliminary setup, but, short of shipping EECs halfway across the country and back everytime something needed changing, I would not be able to help you a lot. If you were closer, maybe. Tuning EFI is like tuning a carburetor and distributor together, as you already know, they have to work together. Idle and cruise conditions the O2 sensors control the mixture, load, rpm and the program in the computer control the spark advance (which can go over 60 degrees under light load and decent rpm).

Manifold, one of the weak areas on the EFI 460 is the intake, it is a basic dual plane low riser like the carbureted engines used. If Tim feels the 351W intake will work, maybe with a spacer between the lower and upper to get a good ram length (I'm sure he has the formulas Chrysler worked out in the 60s) That would benefit your engine I am sure. The 460 TB will bolt to the Windsor intake plenum, there are a few modifications needed, like IAC ports, water to prevent icing, TPS and throttle cable hookups.

BTW, if Tim can lower himself to thinking about 460s, I have a wild idea for a better intake, but do not have the capability to build it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Bill - I was afraid that I’d need to reflash the computer to tune things, but needed to ask the question. So, I’ll plan on buying into Core Tuning. And, maybe I can get Ben to come up to next year’s show.

Was just email chatting with Dan Lee, who has joined the forum and will soon chime in, and the crazy thought of EFI’ing Big Blue came to mind. After all, I’ll have the ‘90 as well as all the parts Jim is sending to me. But, if I remember correctly, the EFI heads are different so the EFI intake probably won’t bolt to the carb heads. And while I’ll have the EFI heads on the ‘90, there’s something different about the exhaust so I’d have to use the manifolds that are on the ‘90 instead of the headers. Also, there’s a difference in combustion chamber size - what is the resulting CR with EFI heads on a carb block?

As for the 351W intake, there are aftermarket parts that bolt right on and provide more power. But I’ve always thought the tubing of the factory units was cool, and that would fit with the theme of Dad’s truck - As Ford could have done it.

Last, Tim didn’t design the new Track Boss intakes. Turns out a guy named Gary did, and he came to the show in September. We talked at length as I was wanting him to design an intake for an M-block with designated spots for injectors, but he didn’t seem to be ready to do that. However, maybe I should look him up and ask the 400 and 460 question. I’ll do that. 👍

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

What do you want to know about 460 heads?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Just looked up what you said earlier - early EFI engines had heads with larger combustion chambers, so the ‘90 heads on Big Blue’s block would kill compression. And because of the different valve geometry there are valve cutouts in the pistons, so I’d probably have interference. Looks like EFI’ing Big Blue wouldn’t be easy. 🙈

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

No they don't really have larger chambers than D3VE's

To be clear, for efi there are E7's & F3's.

Both *engines* have *slightly* higher compression than carbed.

E7's have a tiny piston dish, and the same deck height as D3.

F3's have smaller chambers but the same dish volume as D3.... but are closer to the top of the hole.

You can check all this out on Scott's site.

Afa efi on carbed heads idk.

Price not only makes the CS460-EFI they also make carb intake to EFI plates that fit where the manifold to head junction is.

On Oct 27, 2017 8:40 AM, "Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just looked up what you said earlier - early EFI engines had heads with larger combustion chambers, so the ‘90 heads on Big Blue’s block would kill compression. And because of the different valve geometry there are valve cutouts in the pistons, so I’d probably have interference. Looks like EFI’ing Big Blue wouldn’t be easy. 🙈
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/T19/3.55's

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://bullnose-enthusiasts.12971.n8.nabble.com/E4OD-For-Dad-s-Truck-tp2425p3048.html

To unsubscribe from E4OD For Dad’s Truck, click here.
NAML

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Jim - I’m getting lost. First, I tried to find Scott’s site and found http://reincarnation-automotive.com/products. Is that it? If so, I can’t find the info you referenced about heads. Do you have a link?

Second, are you saying the early EFI heads, like those on the ‘90 which are probably E7’s, will work on Big Blue?

Sorry if I’m dense.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Yes, but no.
It's now Parkland Performance Machine, as I noted in the build thread.

His site is antiquated and confusing mishmash.
Maybe what I know comes from the paid portion.

All EFI heads have different intake and exhaust ports than carb.

I need to sign off now.
Things are too busy here.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

That link actually goes to Parkland Performance Machine. And you are right, the site is hard to use. There’s no search function, so no way to find anything but poke around. But then I run into the paid section pretty quickly, and not knowing if it actually has what I’m looking for I’m not going there.

I’ll continue to research the question of EFI heads on a block/piston combo for a carb, but so far what I’m seeing is that it’ll work. I could use the complete harness/intake/exhaust from the ‘90, including the EEV-IV computer on a Big Blue. However, the computer is for an E4OD so that would have to be turned off for the ZF5. But, if I buy into Core Tuning that should be fairly easy - I assume. However, if I’m in that far I might change it to SEFI.

Can anyone spell SCOPE CREEP???

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

I have an EEC-IV for a manual transmission 460, it is bank fired, but even the CA spec 96s came bank fird for MT.

Biggest issue, if you do it on Big Blue, unless that engine has smaller dish pistons than stock, you will have what I have on Darth now, around 8.0 to one or less.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

The valves are a little bigger on the F3 heads, that is what is on Darth's new engine, pistons for the 1988-92, F3 heads set up for 9.3 compression and a mild cam.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Can IV's be changed to sequential, or just V's?

I'm not really sure I want to do the conversion to EFI on Big Blue, but doubt it would be worth it to convert to bank-fire. The truck runs so well on the Edelbrock that there's no compelling reason to change that I can think of.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Short answer, no, has to be built for SEFI, but, the Mustang computers can be re-sequenced and used on a manual transmission. A lot of people have done that and some have used a separate trans controller for the E4OD. EEC-V from a 1996 302 truck might be SEFI.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

1 ... 45678910 ... 20

E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Use a Cleveland intake with Price Motorsports Cleveland/M-block adaptors machined to take the injectors.

Use the existing Weiand intake on the engine and machine it to take injectors. But, since it is a dual-plane intake that puts the injectors at different levels, if not different angles, and makes creating a fuel rail difficult.

Use a 351W EFI lower and upper intake. Tim said he's always wanted to do this, and Price makes adapters to bolt a 351W intake to M-block heads. Tim suggested machining off the thermostat housing. Here's a couple of pics:

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Use a 351W EFI lower and upper intake. Tim said he's always wanted to do this, and Price makes adapters to bolt a 351W intake to M-block heads. Tim suggested machining off the thermostat housing.
Here's a couple of pics: