E4OD For Dad’s Truck

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E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill, Jim, and I are discussing bits and pieces of the plan to put an E4OD in Dad’s truck, and some of that is in the WHYDTYTT thread and some is in email. So I’m starting this thread to consolidate the info.

One issue is the length of the E4, which is more than even the ZF, and that means the drive shafts have to be changed. And, since the E4’s mounting pad is several inches further back than either the C6’s or ZF’s that means a different crossmember is needed.

Anyway, since I think an E4OD is the best automatic available for the bigger engines in these trucks, I hope to sort out all of those details in this thread for posterity.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Pebcak
I'm going to be paying attention to this thread for future use! Thanks Gary!

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017, 08:36 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Bill, Jim, and I are discussing bits and pieces of the plan to put an E4OD in Dad’s truck, and some of that is in the WHYDTYTT thread and some is in email. So I’m starting this thread to consolidate the info.

One issue is the length of the E4, which is more than even the ZF, and that means the drive shafts have to be changed. And, since the E4’s mounting pad is several inches further back than either the C6’s or ZF’s that means a different crossmember is needed.

Anyway, since I think an E4OD is the best automatic available for the bigger engines in these trucks, I hope to sort out all of those details in this thread for posterity.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads, Weiand intake, Street Demon 750/ZF5/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/T19/3.55's



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NAML
"Daily Driver" 1986 F150 XLT Lariat, 4X2, 351W, Edelbrock Carb swapped from the Holley
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That’s one of the several reasons for creating the thread.  I think the E4OD will be a popular conversion for folks with a 351M, 400, or a 460 as that and the C6 are the only two automatics that bolt to those engines. And while the E4 is bigger and requires an electronic controller, it makes up for that with both an overdrive and a lock-up torque converter, neither of which a C6 has.

As some of you know, I had intended to put a ZF5 in Dad’s truck. In fact, I had one in there and have had it fully rebuilt during the resto.  But the addition of Big Blue to the fleet has caused me to reconsider. Big Blue needs an OD and that ZF will bolt right in. Plus, a ZF is a slow-shifting truck transmission, and Dad’s truck deserves a quick-shifting tranny given its sportier nature. So, the plans changed. 😎
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill said that Chad Meador got him the following pictures and measurements from his 1993 F350 460/E4OD/4WD.:

Front of case to mount pad is 30"
Front drive shaft is 41-42" approximately
Shifter rod is 9" long and the shifter bolts to the side of the E4OD case which should put it in the correct location for Dad's truck.


E4OD Crossmember:


Front Driveshaft 1:


Front Driveshaft 2:


E4OD Length To Pad:



Transfer Case Shift Rod:



Transfer Case Shifter:


Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
On the controller you will be using, I assume your speedometer cable comes off the transfer case output, a speed sensor like the one on the side of my extension housing will provide the needed signal, but, on the 4WD trucks, there is a wire to tell the computer you are in Low range, on the ones with the rear axle speed sensor, it simply tells the transmission to start an upshift sooner so you do not over rev the engine, on an output shaft sensor, it should do the same to anticipate rapider "wind up" in Low range.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right?  If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup?  A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI.

I was initially reluctant to follow in your steps because I didn’t need the tranny part of it, and didn’t want to have an unknown injection setup while breaking in the engine. But, the engine is well and truly broken in and I now need the tranny controller. So, I would think your setup would work, even on a 400. I could have Tim tap his adapters that fit a 351C manifold to a raised-block M, and put the injectors there.

As for the speedo, I think I have the electronic sensor that came with the BW1356, and if I remember correctly it has both a speedocable connection and an electrical connection. Wouldn’t that work?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
And here are a couple of pics from Bill of the E4OD in Darth.


Darth's E4OD:



T-Case Shifter on E4OD:
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Talked to Tim.  He carries the Price Motorsport adapters for using a Cleveland intake with a tall-block 335 Series engine.  But, he doesn't actually do the machine work to put injectors in them, although he did one time for another customer - apparently Dan Lee according to this article in Ford Muscle.





And, here's how it was done.  Not too difficult on a mill.  

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Nothing Special
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
 
Gary Lewis wrote
Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right?  If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup?  A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI....
In some conversations on the Classic Broncos forum (not the FTE Bronco forum) some people have made what I think is a good point, that aftermarket electronics might have some longer term risk to them.  Sure, right now you can get all the support you need for a brand-new Baumann controller, probably more than for a 20 year old Ford system.  But 20 years from now is the 20 year old Baumann or the 40 year old Ford going to be easier to troubleshoot and fix?  Not an overwhelming argument, but might be worth considering.
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Interesting point. But, we would need to factor in that Bill is re-flashing the ECM’s to do SEFI as well as changing the shift points and harshness on the tranny. So, if an ECM went south and you had to replace it the engine would probably run and the transmission would shift, but not like it had with the old one.

Tim had another point I forgot to mention. Since my build theme is “As Ford Could Have Done It”, why not use the EFI manifold off a Windsor?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Gary, I have several spares, and if I am going on a long run with my 21 year old Ford PCM, I can carry a pre-flashed spare. I am using the EEC-V units which are OBD-II compliant and can be flashed through the OBD-II port, as for Dan Lee, I know him, he and I had a long back and forth about using a diesel TCM to control the E4OD in his 1983 F150 5.0L truck. We have also had some discussion about problems with his 434 Tim Meyer engine. He just lives in Dover DE.

If you want to get into EFI on Dad's truck, and use the EEC-V system, we will need to get some outside assistance as far as some tokens to do the initial "crack" of the Ford programming, once that is done, I can reflash until the nether regions freeze over, oh wait, that has already happened twice, when Chevy and Toyota formed NUMMI and again when NNS and Electric Boat started the Virginia class subs.

The group is called Core Tuning, Adam Marrer, Ben Head and Clint Garrity are the individuals, Ben is in Oklahoma City, Adam in Rochester NY and Clint in Dixon CA. The software is Binary Editor and it runs in Windows.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Yes, the speedo cable sensor combo was what the 90 F250 used.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Dan lives in lower, slower Delaware?  Cool!  Used to live just out of Wilmington and have been to the race in Dover many times.  Wish I could have met Dan.  What problems is he having with the engine?

As for the EEC-V system, did you ever do the parts list on what it'll take?

On the Core Tuning group, maybe I need to get to know Ben Head, for two reasons.  First, to learn how to to crack the code.  Second, to get him to come up to the show next year.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Not the engine, his electronics, he is using a Mustang EEC-IV MAF system and the infamous "salt and pepper shaker" connectors, two connectors, one white and one black that tie the engine harness to the body harness and are famous for bad connections. The EEC-V processor you need will have a hardware code of ML1-441, this is V8 w/E4OD, easily found in 1996-7 trucks with 351 and E4OD, including E series, I can give you a list of catch codes, but the ML1-441 hardware code is all you really need. The truck Chad Meador has is a 460 SD system but does have the E4OD and 4WD system.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
This one is available a lot closer than Chad's: https://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/d/parting-out-1990-f250/6296119046.html.  But what differences are there between a '90 F250 and a '93 F350?  Are the harnesses different?  

You mentioned drive shafts, but the 350's have bigger u-joints.  Remember, Dad's is a 150.  So even the 250's drive shafts will be bigger and take different/bigger u-joints.  Right?

Yes, I'd really like to have a list so I can get my head around what I need, and how complex this will be.  It doesn't have to be perfect the first round, but anything will get me started.  Thanks!
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
1990 E4OD is what I have, harnesses on the pre-1992 trucks use a bunch of various color round 8 pin connectors for the engine, transmission and rear chassis harness. Engine differences, heads are the biggest difference, EFI 460s used E7TZ heads from 1988-1992, after that they went to F3TZ heads which flow better.

Transfer case, don't know, shifter, you can probably use the column as is, just change the switch wiring, 1990 has a dash mounted OD switch. The 1990 is a linkage shifter setup and should drop in. Crossmember, probably fit. Is 1990 still a TTB setup? might be good parts for Big Blue. I have the mating front harness for plugs if needed.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
So, are you saying the ‘90 would be as good as the ‘93 for what I want to do?  Sure would be a lot easier and cheaper to get. I’ll call the guy to find out more about it.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Probably will be, from either truck, upper plenum and throttle body for the 408 EFI along with distributor, and TFI module. If it is an early production 1990 it will have the oil cooler setup I have which will be great for Big Blue. Too bad it's still halfway across the country, front sheet metal looks to be in decent shape. Maybe just yank the 460 and stick it somewhere for parts (some will fit on Darth, some for your 408 EFI). Computer, probably no good for you, but if you pull the front doghouse complete to facilitate the powertrain removal, everything plugs in. Save the wiring you can, it will help later. You will need to find a 1996/7 OBS truck with an EEC-V system for the front harness (which gives you the nice PDC I have) in order to get the OBD-II port and 104 pin EEC connector. You can get the stuff from a car or E series, but all that will do is give you the 104 pin connector and OBD-II port and the wiring is different on the cars.

1987-91 trucks used a round connector on the driver's side, again, if he still has them, the factory tanks should go right on Dad's and have the proper fuel lines to get to the top of the engine (I can't believe you aren't going to use a Carterbrock )
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Just talked to the guy about the ‘90. Or, maybe I should call it a ‘45 as they cut the truck in half, right through the frame behind the cab. They are keeping the rear half and selling the front half. Said if it had trailing wheels it would pull itself around as they’ve plugged the transfer case output and the engine, tranny, and transfer case work fine.

However, it is supposedly sold to someone how hasn’t come to get it nor paid yet. So we are going to give it a couple of weeks and. Then I’ll check back to see if it is still available. He’s asking $800, but I think he will take less as it has been listed for a month at this point.

Not knowing where Chad’s truck is in Indiana, I picked Terre Haute and did the math. Almost 1200 miles round trip is about $250 in gas. Adding in a hotel room and meals makes paying the local guy $800 seem seem like a fair deal - and I can do it in half a day. Plus, there’s less to get rid of when the picking is done. But, there’s the issue of how to get it on my new trailer w/o rear wheels. Hmmm.

So, Bill, what else do I need beyond what that ‘90 would have?  And, how do the injectors mount on a 460?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by 85lebaront2
Oops, you posted while I was typing. I think he has the tanks and driveshafts. Hmmmm.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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