E4OD For Dad’s Truck

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

PetesPonies
The ZF is like driving a big rig. Unless you plan a lot of miles and it's an OD version ,  I'd rather have a Toploader 4 speed. Bulletproof and you can shifty like a race car.
Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I've driven Dad's truck with the ZF in it from OK to DE and back, visiting Bill's son in WV along the way, and had the bed so full of furniture you couldn't get sand in it.    It performed quite well and once in OD there was rarely a need to shift.  But, I do agree that it is like driving a "big rig", which is why it is going in Big Blue and the E4 in Dad's, making BB better on the highway due to the ZF5's OD, and Dad's more sporty.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

PetesPonies
I have a toploader in my Hot Rod pickup. It's a '69 with a 428 and a 4 spd  :)
Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

1982 F100 Flareside
1983 Bronco

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That'll work, but my son can't drive a stick.  Nor can he rebuild a carb.  So, an E4OD and SEFI w/OBD-II seems a good approach.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - Can you provide some info about how all of this works and who Core Tuning is?  By “how all of this works”, I mean what part does Core Tuning play?  Once I find an ECM, what needs to happen in order for it to run my 400?  And for the E4?  What costs are there beyond the ECM, the EFI hardware, etc?

And once it is all working, how is it tuned?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

FoxFord33
The OD button being on the dash (rather than on the end of the shift selector lever) might be a thing... You might have gone over this in other places, but; my '93 has the OD button on the end of the shifter.

Not only does the shifter light up when OD is off, but the computer also has the capacity to blink the "OD OFF" light on the end of that shifter to indicate if there is a problem detected with the E4OD. Does the dash apparatus that Bill mentioned allow for that function?

To make a '93 shift lever work, it would have to match the profile of the one that fits in your column, and you would need to run the wire from the computer harness through the column to make the connection.

Unless you are going with a floor shifter, in which case this is moot.
A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Daily Driving and working on it!
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
We could measure your lever and compare with one for a Bullnose and see if yours will fit. If not, we might be able to modify one to make it fit - if we had the right tools. 😎

That's the beauty of having a donor truck.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Administrator
Gary, the first generation of the E4OD had the OD lockout switch on the dash, with a light that was on with the OD off and flashing for problems. If you get the 90 parts truck it will have that switch/light and a shift indicator on the column (which will fit in a Bullnose if you swap the mount plates) that reads P R N OD 2 1 the OD is an O surrounding a D and will also have the linkage rather than cable shifter system.

Core Tuning is the group I am working with for mine. The startup was $750 which included the software, hardware and a nice couple of hours with my bench flash setup and Adam walking me through the software. I checked the other day, I have 4 spare EEC-V boxes including and actual FEZ3 (CA 460, MAF/SEFI/E4OD).EEC-V boxes
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - Thanks for the explanation on the shifter, switch, etc. Sounds like the ‘90 would be a good fit.

As for Core Tuning, is that something I need to buy into?  Or something you can do?

On the boxes, are you suggesting I need several spare?  Or are you willing to sell one or more?  Maybe with the proper code?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Administrator
I would sell one of the GIN3 or TIN3 boxes, they are 351 w/E4OD. One has already been reflashed, that one I want to keep as it is the spare. The one with the seal was purchased when Adam and I both thought there was something wrong with the one he sold me on the initial setup.

You can contact Core Tuning, in fact it would be a good idea so you can purchase the needed hardware and software to be able to tweak things yourself.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I will contact Core Tuning, but it will be a few days before I can. As for the computer, let me get back with you in a bit on that as well. And thanks for the offer.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I’ve contacted Core Tuning, although it wasn’t Ben so I sent him an email to see about going down to OKC to talk to him. That’s because after perusing their website I’m even more confused and have lots of questions.

And, to prove I don’t understand, let me outline my limited understanding and hope I will be corrected.

Needed Parts:

EEC-V module: Bill sent me a file that provides the details, but I think I remember that one from a 351W or 302 provides the right firing order. However, Core Tuning asked if I want knock sensors, which some modules support.

Ignition: Core Tuning asked if I want a dizzy or coil-on-plug ignition.  I’m thinking dizzy as a 460’s will drop right in and should plug into the harness.

Harness: Bill said I’ll need to find a “1996/7 OBS truck with an EEC-V system for the front harness (which gives you the nice PDC I have) in order to get the OBD-II port and 104 pin EEC connector.”  But I don’t know what a PDC is. 😳

Intake: Bill mentioned getting the upper plenum and throttle body off a 460. But how does that interface with a standard intake on the 400?

Fuel Tank & Pump: Do I use the tanks and pumps from an EFI’d truck?  If so, how do I get the fuel gauge to work?  Can I put an EFI pump on an 85/86 sending unit?

Injectors: Tim said the injectors he used on Dan’s engine just pushed down into the machined holes in the adapters, and the fuel rail pushed down over them, with standoffs supporting the ends of the fuel rails. But that doesn’t appear to be how the 460’s injectors are attached - from what I can see in pictures. So, how are the 460’s injectors attached?

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture - I need educated. 😬
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Administrator
This post was updated on .
PDC = Power Distribution Center.

Yes, use a distributor, I even have an extra that I will install a new shaft seal in for you.

Fuel tank(s) and pumps, Gary, two options, first item, fuel gauges changed in 1989 when the IVCR was done away with. That said, it is either adapt early senders to the later pump modules or use the 1985.5-1989 system with pre-89 pumps and senders along with the frame mounted filter/separator/reservoir and a frame mounted high pressure pump. Latter is more complicated mechanically, but would allow you to keep your nicely refurbished gauges.

460 Plenum to 400 manifold, Dan Lee used one but changed due to firewall interference (his is in a 1956 F100) Tim may remember what he did on that one.

460 injectors push down into the manifold bores, the rails push down over them and the rails are bolted to the intake.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Oh, PDC - got it. 👍

On the senders, keeping the NOS gauges is a must.

As for the injectors, it looks like that will work. And the plenum may as well, although I haven’t figured out how it attaches - does it have a 4bbl flange?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

85lebaront2
Administrator
Close enough they make a EFI to 4 barrel adapter, I don't know, but it might work. Get a plenum gasket for a 460 and look at it, you should be able to make an adapter plate on your Bridgeport, won't need to be more than 1/4" thick, maybe 3/8" max.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
We will see. The ‘90 truck is apparently sold as the guy that had spoken for it says he’s coming tomorrow. So if I’m going on with this new approach I’ll need to find another truck. But, I’m getting cold feet as I’d be launching into the unknown, at least for me, and few others have gone there on a 400.

But, I have a 400 fresh from the dyno, so adding a controller to an E4OD would make things so much easier. I asked Ben, of Core, if an EEC-V can be set up to do that, and he responded that he will call me.

So if it can be, one approach would be to get the truck running that way and add EFI later. In any event, I need to start making progress, and adding new options is sure slowing things down. 😬
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Scope creep.... on a project of Gary's???        
where's the ROTFLMAO emoticon?

Gary, as you know, I'm going to look at a 1995 460 to disembowel today.
This thing runs like a top.
Since I only really need the short block you're welcome to any harness, computer, plenum, whatever.

But lmk so i don't end up cutting a harness or sending something you might need to the shredder.
There's nothing bigger than my fist left after that.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
On the senders, keeping the NOS gauges is a must.
The gauges reversed sweep direction and changed resistance range with the bricknose styling change in '87.

The newer gauges work more like a stepper motor than the heated spring style of the Bullnose instruments.
Since the 302 & 351 were available with fuel injection in 1985 I don't think a pump & sender unit for the NOS instruments is going to be an issue.

Price Motorsport makes the CS-460EFI, a flange with a Holley square bore pattern, gaskets for both sides, and eight 14mm brass plugs for the 460 injector holes.
I see no reason why this couldn't be used in reverse.

It needs to be 1/2" thick or more so the bolt heads are below flush from both sides.
For around $125 it's not really worth making your own unless you like spending hours laying out a plate and making chips while you could be doing something else important.    (I.e., reinventing the wheel)

http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_cs-460efi.html
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jim - I can’t find a rolling-on-the-floor emoticon either. 🤔

But, if it is convenient it might be a big help if you save the harness(es), dizzy, TFI module, injectors and rail, and plenum. (What else?  I don’t know, yet, but maybe the shift lever and its harness?)  That would certainly be appreciated.

You are right about the fuel gauge and sending unit, but the EFI pumps for a 302 or 351W are a good idea and would solve that problem. 👍

The Price Motorsport adapter looks like it would also do the trick. But, it costs $125, and the manifold adapters into which I’d put the injectors after machining cost $325. And with an intake at maybe $500 we are right at $1000. Add in the cost of the Core Tuning kit and some other bits and bobs and we are approaching $2000. But a Bauman controller for the E4OD costs $800. 😳
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Here's a pic of how the 460 upper bolts to the lower.

<nabble_img src="IMG_20171021_114617.jpg" border="0"/

<nabble_img src="IMG_20171021_114617.jpg" border="0"/>

This is the tag on the valve cover

You already have a 4v manifold. You just need to drill and tap for injectors.
The Price adapter will allow you to install the butterflys and tps needed to run the computer.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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