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E4OD For Dad’s Truck

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NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

I do have a 95 MAF EECV for a 5.0 with E4OD and a complete underhood harness. Could ship it your way.

The harness for EECV is completely different than for EECIV. 104 pins in 4 rows as opposed to 60 pins in 3 rows.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Ray - Was it from a 4wd truck? Or does it matter? Dad's truck is 4wd and Bill was saying something about the computer needing to know that you are in 4Lo so it knows when to shift.

And, where is the computer located on a '95? What I was hoping to do was to go with a harness that would position things basically where they are going to be so I don't have to cut and re-wire.

Also, was this an A/C truck? Or is that something that can be added?

And was '95 SEFI?

Bill - Why won't this work? You sent me a list of EEC-V modules that would work, but they all were from a '96 Bronco. Why not a '95 F-Series?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

I can't recall if it was a 4wd truck. Catch code is TAD4. Possibly 4wd functions can be toggled with flash program? It may have been 4wd. I recall taking a pic of the door tag so I would have a record, but now I would have to find it. Pretty sure the truck had A/C.

ECU was mounted in the left kick panel like all 87 to 96 F series. I really disliked the location under the dash that the 85/86 trucks used. If I had to cut the hole, I would look for a high and dry location like the 97 and up F series or the Rangers used. The 92 to 96 truck used a very different thru firewall connector than the 87 to 91 trucks used. Probably not a factor if you are making a stand alone harness. There may also be some black magic programming required as the 92 and up trucks were married to other modules along the CANBUS system inherent with OBDII. I'm thinking PSOM speedometer module here.

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

And I should add that the truck was SEFI and MAF.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

My cab is an '82 with a round plate under the driver's seat for the wiring to the ECU to come through. Why couldn't I mount the computer under the seat? I'd really rather not have to cut the firewall.

As for the speedometer, are you saying the computer expects there to be certain gauges, like the speedo? And gets upset if they aren't there? Can that be turned off?

I've been planning to call Core Tuning, but it looks like tomorrow may be the day. Perhaps they can help me understand as my head is swimming.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Gary,
I think he is saying that there is a difference in obd-II (eec-V) truck's PSOM.

All of this is as far over my head as it is yours.
But I am trying to learn as I follow along.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

The PSOM converts the pulses from the tone ring in the rear axle or the output from the ABS module on 4 wheel ABS to a speed reading on the speedometer and a speed signal that emulates the old speed sensor on the transmission, transfer case or in-line in the cable. From there everything works the same as it did prior to 1992. As long as he has a speed sensor (which he is getting from the 1990 parts truck) he will have what he needs. No CANBUS on the trucks till later, the OBD-II on the 1996/7 models only went to the EEC-V unit, the ABS kept it's old test connection.

Under the seat would be an idea, Chevrolet did that with the 1989 G- series, issue would be sealing the penetration under the seat, theirs was a molded round rubber piece with a right angle to make the turn from under the floor to a vertical direction. Issue became in a conversion, the power seat or custom seat required the computer be relocated.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Bill - You said “the OBD-II on the 96/97 models only went to the EEC-V unit”, but Ray’s harness is a ‘95. Are you saying it won’t have OBD-II?

Ray - I’m not questioning your knowledge. I’m just confused. Can you help me understand?

As for the seat, that may not work as I’m using that adapter to bolt Bronco buckets to a regular cab. I’ll have to look to see if it blocks off the hole in the floor.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Obd II in '96 model year.

Why not the kick panel like every other Ford?

The spot is there.
The connector and gasket are available.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Conanski said:

1996 was the official cutover to OBD-2 but of course they start making that years models in late '95 so there could be a few of those as well.

With OBD-1 the EEC test connector is under the hood on the drivers side inner fender, with OBD-2 it is in the cab under the dash, and these connects are totally different.

Also note that it was only trucks under 8500lb GVWR that went OBD-2 in '96, so all f250HD and larger trucks retained OBD-1 until the new Superduty was introduced in 1998.

SD to MAF is harder to nail down though in general it happened in '94 and '95 depending what state the vehicle was destined for.

But I’ve read elsewhere that there were some pre-‘96 trucks that got OBD-II connectors but they weren’t fully functional. Might Ford have been getting the wiring set up but not have the computer programmed for OBD-II?

As for the computer’s position, is there room under a Bullnose’s kickpanel for it? And I’d have to cut a hole in the firewall for the connector?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

All of the EECV equipped trucks are OBDII. My memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure the truck I pulled the ECM from was a 95. It is the 104 pin connector and the label clearly says EECV. Part # is F6TF-12A650-JE. If I read my part #'s correctly, F6 would indicate a 1996 model year part, so????

The kick panel location is available, but in the bullnose, the opening is not cut out. I think there also is a tray that bolts to the kickwell area that holds the ECM with a plastic clip and a single bolt. That parts truck on Gary's hoist will be a perfect template.

I like the idea of mounting it under the seat, but I am not familiar with that round cover. To the best of my knowledge, Ford never mounted an ECM under the seat. The 5.0 EFI 85/86 trucks put the ECM under the dash, just to the left of the transmission hump with the harness passing through the firewall just behind the left cylinder head. Maybe something different with those feedback carburetor sixes?

What I do not have is a good schematic of the EECV equipped truck. For that matter, I don't have a proper EVTM for an EECIV truck either, but online resources and a Haynes manual cover most of it. The Haynes manual is accurate, but it does not give you the path and connector locations like the EVTM does. I do have some EVTM's covering other models and you can piece together a picture.

I think all the PSOM does is some signal conditioning before the VSS is applied to the ECM. It certainly would be good news if you can hook your speed sensor directly to the ECM like the older trucks. I noted that the 92 and up trucks with EECIV also use the PSOM. Perhaps that signal conditioning is not critical?

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I think Bill has it right. The later applications of OBDII allowed accessing multiple modules over the OBDII connector. The 95/96 trucks really only had the ECM, they kept the old ABS module and that PSOM issue may be a non starter.

Mounting the ECM under the seat will likely mean lengthening some wires and I don't know if using that cover you mentioned would be the best way to run the wiring. I understand the desire to keep the firewall clean and assuming the rest of the vehicle will have period correct wiring, the EFI must become a stand alone system. The 85/86 applications were arranged something like this although I already said I don't care much for the installation method in those years. I could get some pics of what I mean out of my field of dreams.

I am wondering if an under seat or console mounting could be accommodated with an access hole in the transmission cover?

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Just use the 90 as a template, and grab the tray from there.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

Yes, F6 would be ‘96. 👍

I’ll look the ‘90 over for the opening and compare to Dad’s, but they are in the same room, so that’s easy. And, I’ll check the possible interference of the floor opening with the seat base. Oh yes, the 1982’s had the computer under the driver’s seat, with the wire running under the cab. This one had a 351W and a feedback carb. I’ll post a pic later of that opening as well as the opening in the 90’s kick panel.

So, if that harness is EEC-V and OBD-II then I would think it would be an easy one to use. Or, maybe “easier one”, as it will still be a lot of work. But there wouldn’t seem to be a need to create or find an EEC-V harness and graft it into the EEC-IV harness that I have.

Plus, it will be set up for the Windsor injectors, throttle body, etc. And Trick Flow makes a Windsor-style lower plenum to bolt to Cleveland heads. Yes, it’ll take the adapters to go to the tall M block, but no machining is needed. Add the Trick Flow upper plenum and the intake plumbing from a 5.8L and it should all bolt/plug together.

But I’m sure the computer needs a bit of tuning, so I have emailed Core Tuning to see what they have to say.

Anyway, does this sound like it might work?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Yes, that is right on track hardware wise at least.

It will be interesting what Core Tuning has to add. I have a fairly good programmer called F-Com and there are a lot of recommendations for Forscan, but getting into the actual configuration and tuning of the ECM is another matter.

Gary Lewis

The Good, the Bad, and The UGLY!

Administrator

First The Bad: I don't believe it would be easy to put the computer in a Bullnose where it is in the later trucks like this '90. That's because the 90's hole in the kick panel is 1" larger front/rear. And, because the front sheet metal of the hole is recessed 1 1/2" on the later trucks. Without that recess, which positions the computer over an inch to the left, the connector would have to come through the firewall very close to the park brake mechanism and right at the junction of the kickpanel and the firewall.

Here's a pic showing how the front of the opening is recessed 1 1/2". (And, it shows The UGLY - the carpet of the huck, which has been a home to a serious colony of rodents.) And you can see how the computer has been set over an inch to the left, which puts the firewall plug left of the park brake mechanism.

Now, here's a pic of the same area on Dad's truck, and there's no place to put the 'puter. The bracket's rear end will go into that hole, but it is 1" too long f/r to fit down in. And even if it did the computer's connector would be perfectly lined up with the joint between the kickpanel and the firewall.

However, on to The Good. Here's the seat base sitting in Dad's truck, and the computer slips neatly under it, with 1/2" to spare height-wise. So, that brings up the question of how big the EEC-V computer is. If it is the same size as the IV, which I suspect it is, then it is a perfect fit. And, if the connector fits on it the same way then it'll point right at the opening in the floor, which can be seen just past the connector of the computer.

Yes, I know that means lengthening a whole bunch of wires, but that's easier than making your own pigtail. And, if I can find another harness at a salvage I can use the same wire colors.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: The Good, the Bad, and The UGLY!

Administrator

Gary, et al, the EEC-V is the same case as the EEC-IV, the plug is different on the EEC-V, a little wider so it used a different gasket. On the introduction, trucks, 1994.5 up Powerstroke are OBD-II interface, 1995 Lincoln Continental, same, but not 100%, MAF intro, 1994 5.0L automatic, 1995 5.8L automatic, 1995-96 4.9L automatic. 7.5L only some 1996/7 F250HD and F350, all with E4OD.

1995 EEC-IV, requires some piggy back method of tuning, to my knowledge can not be reflashed (programmed). I am using BE2012 and a Mongoose pass through cable to do my EEC-V boxes. The cable is needed because it takes 18V applied to pin #13 to put the EEC in program mode.

Now you see why I went with the later dash, column support etc. It was either have the 90 air box grafted into the 86 cab, use the 85.5/86 location (not too viable on a 460) or somewhere else.

On the Chevy G-30 I worked on, the harness went through the floor under the seat, along the "frame" (unibody) then under and to the engine. If you run the wiring harness along the inside of the frame where the rear and transmission harnesses run, then it would come up alongside the existing rear harness connections. Get some of the nice corrugated covering for it so you don't have to use a mile of electrical tape (it's also easier to route). I have a bunch of Chrysler molded penetrations with right angle portions on them (up until 1988 Chrysler used a split engine computer, brain inside, brawn outside) so the harness was pretty bulky. If you split the transmission circuits away from the engine part then the two parts would be smaller. I have a good stock of pins and sockets for the two most commonly used connectors and plenty of 8, 16 and even some 42 pin weatherproof pairs.

In addition to some spare later model stuff, I have a couple of front harnesses for the 1987-91 system, including extra round 32 pin plugs and sockets.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

All - I've started a new "project" called EFI For Dad's Truck. And, I'm using that post as a sort of a whiteboard, where I can keep track of what I plan to do. But, instead of it being on my computer where no one else can see it, I have it out where you can see it and suggest changes. However, I've locked that thread so you cannot make comments to it as I don't know that we would be religious about going back to that page to look, and just keep the comments going - much as we are here. So, I'd like you to look at that whiteboard and come back here to make your comments. OK?

Bill - I see what you are saying about the computer location, and now understand better why you changed. And, I may well need one or two of those molded penetrations. Or, I may be able to find Ford's original one for the 1982 trucks and see if that would work.

I do have the corrugated tubing/convolute, and I like the idea of running along the frame and then across to the opening under the seat. After all, the factory harness will come to the point right above the frame at the firewall, so I'll splice on there, drop down, and head back. But I can split out the wires going to the tranny from the engine harness, and just loop them to the tranny right below the seat. And, I can come back into the cab at the firewall with the OD switch wires, and I'll use the 90's dash-mounted switch unless I can get a shift lever from a later truck to fit.

However, I'm not sure I know what you were saying about the EEC-V. Are you saying Ray's won't be OBD-II and MAF? Or are you just telling when those things started? (I get easily confused.)

And "BE2012 and a Mongoose pass through cable" means Binary Editor 2012, and you added the cable to your computer to program the boxes?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Just had a brief FaceBook messenger discussion with Adam of Core Tuning. Told him about the 1995/6 F150 5.0L harness and EEC-V computer and he said " I prefer going with a 96 F250 series PCM to control everything." About then Tim Meyer called, and I didn't get back to Adam before he seems to have left for the day. But, I don't know what is better about the F250's computer - yet.

As for Tim, we went over my idea of going with Trick Flow's R-Series 5.8L EFI upper/lower combo that bolts up to the Cleveland heads - and he liked it. Should bolt right up, using the adapters, and allow using the Windsor fuel rail, harness, etc.

But, he gave me the name of a guy at Trick Flow to talk to in order to confirm it all fits and will work with my engine.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Gee, Gary why do you think I said contact them. The collection of EEC-V boxes I have are what he told me to get other than the first one, he sold me that with the rest of the package. Ray seems to be sincere, but I don't think fully understands the advantage of using the OBD-II system, for one thing the EEC is twice as fast and powerful than the EEC-IV units and does a lot more "adaptive tuning". FWIW, a week ago I drove Darth to Pittsville MD, then Salisbury and back to Exmore, then did a dump run later in the week. Filled the rear tank (the one I had been using) and mileage was 12.357 mpg, not too bad for a 6400 lb dual rear wheel truck and maybe 8.0:1 compression. I will send you one of the EEC-V ones so you can start fitting the harness stuff. The operative is 1996 F250 pretty well guarantees an E4OD transmission. BTW, did you blame me for referring you? He will probably jack up the price

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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