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E4OD For Dad’s Truck

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Vacuum canisters
"Mercury switch"
Yes, that is the remote TFI.
Black is CCD, while gray is PS.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Vacuum canisters, like for the HVAC?

Mercury switch for an underhood light or?

CCD means Charge-Coupled Device to me, and PS means Power Steering. What does it mean in this case?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Computer Controlled Dwell, or Push Start.
Two kinds of EEC-IV modules.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Got it. Good writeup here: http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Gary, FYI, push start means the starter circuit "pushes" the dwell for a hotter spark cranking, CCD is Computer Controlled Dwell and the EEC controls the dwell. 1987-94 models used push start, 1995-96/7 used CCD. What ever computer you use, you need the correct ICM and wiring as the setup is different.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

You see I used quotes on the switch.
Yes, look at the circuit.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

I'm going to break this up into at least two posts - an update and a request for HELP.

On the update, I got the passenger's fender off yesterday and the driver's fender off today. And, the grille and headlights off, as well as the air box, coolant recovery reservoir, etc - as shown here:

And, I in the cab I got the seat out and the seat belts out. But I've not yet taken the steering column out as I wanted to get down to it under the hood so I can easily pull it. But, other than that I'm now down to the wiring harness being the main thing in the cab. But, other than the OD switch, is there anything special about this in-cab harness that I'll need on Dad's truck?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

HELP!!!

Ok, I'm down to several things that I need to understand. First, I assume this is the MAP sensor. Right?

Second, I also got down to a connector or 10. Yipes! This is complex! How much of this am I going have to retain? Bill, I assume these are the 8-pin color-coded connectors you mentioned.

And, that leads me to the last, and maybe most important, request for help. I don't like to launch into something as complex as this w/o documentation. So I'm thinking that I need a book or somesuch. But I haven't been able to find something that tells me how the system works, what each of the wires are, etc.

One thought is the 1990 EVYM. It'll at least show what the wires are for, assuming I can find them. But the only one I've found is $69.95, which is more for an EVTM than I'm used to paying. Is that the best approach? I'm happy to buy it if it is, but maybe there's something else that will tell me how EEC-IV (and EEC-V?) works?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Gary, Don't know if it's any help, but I did a breakdown of a 90 EFI harness on the FTE engine swap page. The pics disappeared there, but I think I still have copies in my computer. It may be of some use here. I'll email it to you, rather lengthy write up and a lot of pics.

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Yes, first item is the MAP sensor, on the connectors, the group of 4 is the engine, the first group of 3, the ones that go down toward the transmission are E4OD and transfer case, this includes the speed sensor, second group of 3 is the frame harness.

What you need to keep will be based on how you plan on wiring things, I started with the 90 stuff, then ended up going with a 95 setup initially until I got the EEC-V system in. If I can find it, I had a 90 EVTM and the big 11 X 17 fold out set of diagrams, I bought them shortly after buying the 90 F250 parts truck.

On manuals, check blackhatauction on eBay, they have been a great source for me. No luck right now however.

I am going to email you the old Ford Fuel injection website files.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

Ray - As I said in the email, that's a good document and I'd like to put it up on the site as a how-to.

Bill - And as I said to you via email, the Ford Fuel Injection documentation is good as well. But apparently I can't put it up on the site w/o running afoul of Ford, so won't even ask.

Anyway, I have a lot of reading to do. Glad I have another hour tonight to do so. Nite all!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

By all means, that write up may not technically be about a bullnose, but it can be a great help in working with Ford EECIV systems.

I can add that the nest of connectors in that pic you posted includes a group that connects to the rear body functions including taillights and fuel pumps as well as the transmission connections. The 4 that lie parallel to each other include the engine functions.

Perhaps I am late to the party here, but that parts donor appears to be 87 to 91? 7.5l/460 and this is the source of the E4OD you will use?

The calibration in the EECIV ECM in that package may be just the ticket to running your EFI converted 400 and an E4OD.

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

It is a 90 with 460/E4OD/4WD, the problem is, with the exception of some CA spec 1996/7 460s w/E4OD, there are no MAF/SEFI 460s. A 1995 WAY1 or similar EEC-IV, maybe one for a 351W might work, but would still not be the correct displacement and would still require "tweaking" with some sort of piggy back chip or board in order to work correctly with his 408 ci 335 series engine. Not knowing what kind of cam specs and idle vacuum can also be an issue, SD systems do not like much cam as the pulsating vacuum makes the system go crazy.

I went through this on mine, trying to get any information on using a 302/351 EEC-IV box on a 460 w/E4OD. First, in order to control the E4OD it has to be a truck computer as the E4OD is different from the AODE, 4R70W and 4R75W as far as electronic controls go, the smaller units are all based on the AOD gear set, the E4OD and it's follow on, the 4R100 are a wide ratio C6 gear set with an overdrive unit in front of it (hence the length of the beast). The other item, later 302s and all 351s (and the 400) use a different firing order than the 460, for Gary's use, that is not a problem and as long as only one O2 sensor is used, really not a big issue as the injectors can be re-pinned to reflect the actual firing order, or the tuning method can be used to change the firing order in the computer.

If he goes to an EEC-V system, then all the changes can be made by re-flashing the computer, like 51 ci/cyl vs 43.875 or 37.75, injector size, 302/351 use 19 lb/hr injectors, 460 uses 24 lb/hr injectors. These are all factors that need to be entered into the initial setup, then you have the MAF curve, volts vs lbs/hr or L/min whichever you need to use and different size MAFs have different curves, 302/351 use a 75mm MAF, 460s use a 90mm MAF.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

My mind is

Bill - You said "for Gary's use, that is not a problem and as long as only one O2 sensor is used...." Are you saying I can't have an O2 sensor in each exhaust?

So, maybe I need to 'splain what I want to do and you tell me what it takes: I want SEFI & OBD-II.

My understanding is that to do SEFI will either require EEC-V, or at least be far easier with EEC-V, and OBD-II requires EEC-V. So, that tells me I need to do EEC-V.

If I'm right that means I need to find the right 5.0 or 5.8L computer, and I need to create a harness for it from whatever harness I'm using. Right?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

The truck computers until EEC-V only used a single O2 sensor, on the 460s it is back by the transmission crossmember. On most of the smaller engines it was just behind the wye pipe. If you use two, it will have to be the EEC-V system. Computers for the 351 trucks w/E4OD are fairly easy to come by, I have 4, one is in the truck now, the other 3 are spares and I have an actual 1996 CA spec EEC-V box, an FEZ-3 catch code. As for the harness, when you find a truck with the EEC-V computer, get as much of the harness as you can, at least as far as the power distribution center, if you can get the whole thing, even better! The 302 and 351 engines had the O2 sensor wiring in the engine harness, the 460s, it is on the front chassis harness, like this:
1996 style front harness for Darth

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Given the goals Gary stated, EECV is the only path to SEFI, MAF and OBDII. I'm sure that 90 donor has EECIV which means batch fire injection SD and no OBDII diagnostics. It will have E4OD transmission control.

Part of the problem is that the 400 never was EFI and therefore ECM strategies for that displacement are non existent. Adapting 302/351 or 460 strategies brings up the question of displacement vs. all the various tables that make up the strategy. Apparently MAF adapts quite well and EECV allows programming changes that just are not practical with the PROM based EECIV.

I may be completely out to lunch here, but I recall reading about somebody who wanted to run 24 lb/hr injectors on his 351W. He accommodated this with good results by using the 460 ECM. I realize this would be a total crapshoot with regards to calibration and tuning, but I find it just intriguing enough to consider.

Running that E4OD is a primary consideration. The logic is entirely different than the 4R70W, in fact I think it has an extra clutch or solenoid, so conversion is not a practical option. The ECM out of that parts truck will support the E4OD. SEFI and MAF would be nice, but I think you may be able to make the engine run well on SD and batch fire if you keep the cam reasonably mild. There is nothing outside the 302/351 EECV ECM's in the 95/96 trucks that also supports E4OD, but how about a 5.4/E40D out of a 97/98 or maybe a 5.4/4R100 out of a 99-2003 truck? That would give you everything you may want along with EDIS ignition? Just thinking out loud as I have not tried any of this!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

This post was updated on .

These transmission logic questions should probably be addressed to Mark Kovalsky, the Ford tranny engineer who worked there when these things were developed.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by NotEnoughTrucks

That was exactly why I said EEC-V from the beginning. I was getting no information to help setting up the E4OD for my 460, I didn't really want to buzz a 130,000 mile 460 to the levels a 302 goes nor did I want the "hair trigger" converter unlock and downshift program.

FWIW, the AOD and it's derivatives use a gear set design like the old FMX and Cruise-O-Matic, OD is obtained by releasing the forward clutch while applying the overdrive band (would be the intermediate band on an FMX) this gives the OD ratio of roughly .7:1.

The E4OD uses a completely separate OD gear set in front of a wide ration C6 set and since it uses an overrunning clutch for direct in the OD unit, it requires a coast clutch to provide engine braking in 1, 2 and 3. The AODE and 4R70/75W use an output shaft speed sensor that is not the same as the road speed sensor.

The early 5.4L light duty 1997/8 F250s used the E4OD, later models went to the 4R100, the Modular motor transmissions will not fit the 335 large pattern or 385 blocks, AOD, AODE and early 4R70W units fit the Windsor pattern 6 bolt block, later 4R70W and 4R75W models fit the modular block. There are adapters to mate the smaller units to the larger pattern however.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Certainly a mechanical incompatibility with the modular motor transmissions and the 335/385 pattern transmission, but the E4OD should have the same electronic controls regardless of application. I am curious if the compatibility extends to the 4R100 and I'm sure Mark Kovalsky would have the answers.

What I am specifically speculating on is whether you could control the 400, (or any engine other than the intended application) with the mod motor EECV ECM? Really not that much of a stretch over controlling a 400 with an ECM intended for a Windsor or a 460?

The biggest difference that comes to mind is the EDIS ignition integral to the mod motor ECM. This was addressed with the pushrod engines in the 5.0 Explorer. Add the 36 tooth wheel to the balancer and a cam position sensor in place of the distributor and you may be there? Of course, I won't go into Triton territory. Those cam phasers would certainly not work with the older pushrod engines. Perhaps the EECV could be programmed to disable EDIS if you wish to retain a distributor?

That would make for an SEFI MAF 335 series 400 with a 385 series E4OD controlled by EECV electronics, OBDII diagnostics and programming with EDIS ignition adapted from the Explorer 5.0. Wonder if that's how Ford would have done it?

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Administrator

You guys are so far beyond me! But Ray mentioned the "302/351 EECV ECM's in the 95/96 trucks that also supports E4OD". So, instead of using either the '90 or '95 harness, why not get the underhood harness from one of them as well as the tranny harness? That way it would already be set up for EEC-V, MAF, & SEFI. And, if I used a 351W EFI upper and lower intake manifold, with the requisite adapters to fit to a Cleveland head, the harness would fit right on it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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