85lebaront2

Yes, the automatic and manual 460 starters are different, ask Jim with his issues discussed on FTE. I actually did post the drawings of the nose pieces on there for Matt. They are probably still there under Jim's starter problem, or issues, or woes. I don't remember the exact thread title.

What you might do, if you have an original M block starter and a 460 automatic starter, they don't need to be the PMGR, in fact the old movable pole piece might be easier to use. Attach the block plate to the block using short 7/16-14 bolts, probably only need 2 or 3, right above the starter and maybe one opposite for stability.Then to use proper English terms, offer up the starter to it's proper mounting, using a temporary bolt and nut and short bolt, snug it with the proper spanner. After that, with the flex plate to be used stroke the starter drive into it's proper position for cranking the motor and see if the meshing of the gears is correct.Basically do this with and without the spacer to see if you have the proper gear mesh and clearance, then work on the TC position.

For your information, when I switched the E4OD into Darth, with the converter fully seated as far into the front pump as it would go, when I "married" the transmission to the engine the converter studs just penetrated the flex plate. I had enough thread protruding through the flex plate to verify a correct installation, roughly 1/8", just enough to get a new TC nut started to seat the converter. Since the E4OD was intended as a reasonably fitted update to a C6, even though they were not used on the 400s it would seem that a 400 set up for a C6 with the original parts should accept an E4OD with no problems. The recess in the crank. or adapter has to be the correct diameter for the C6/E4OD converter snout. The actual location of the TC with the nuts tightened is approximately 3/8" forward of the full seated position, you need to allow for that. If it was mine, I would try an installation with no adapter, just the 400 flex plate and thin headed bolts attaching it. If the TC studs just enter the flex plate like this, you have the correct assembly. Unfortunately I no longer have access to the starter nose drawings, so can't do a dimensional comparison there. I used Rock Auto's catalog, according to them, using the Motorcraft Remanufactured PNs, the 351M and the 460 take the same starter for the automatic transmissions, this tells me that there should be no need for the adapter if a C6 was to be used and since the E4OD is designed to bolt up the same as the C6 then it should not need an adapter and the later 460 PMGR starter should bolt on perfectly. One of the notes in the 1981 351 listings specifically states one threaded and one unthreaded hole.

Gary, my question is what did Ford do on the 351M/400 with a C6? was it a different "dished" flex plate? I thought I remembered the starters were the same as the 429/460 ones as far as depth and the weird one bolt each way design.

Gary, didn't the 351M/400 engines come with a C6? The E4OD converter attaches to a 460 C6 flex plate with no problems. I doubt Ford used either and adapter or special torque converter for those applications. I would research those numbers, probably in car applications. FWIW, my boss at NNS had a 1979 Lincoln with a 400 and C6.

Looks good to me, quite a shock when I opened the site and it filled my 22" monitor. I like it!

The PO dragged the truck around with his tractor by that tie rod. Come to think of it; I guess that tie rod is still on the truck. How is it different from the X-cab, std. cab, or Bronco linkage? Steve, it has to do with the steering angle, my inside front, in whichever direction I am turning gets very close to 90° to the frame. The right side inner tie rod is unique to the crew cab and uses a stepped adjusting sleeve as the inner rod threaded end is bigger than the outer threaded end. The left side is more normal. FWIW, the right inner is one expensive piece. Last time I had to replace it I was all set to order a Motorcraft with a lifetime warranty, and just when I put the order in at the local dealer, it came up as NLA.

Interesting, the ones on Darth have the bolt heads on the front side and nuts on the back. If I remember correctly, the right side can only be assembled that way due to the strange design of the crew cab steering linkage.

You have been just showing pieces of VINs, I have no problem if you want to dissect my full VIN for demonstration purposes. Darth is an import anyway.

Gary, if you want to use a complete VIN for the later trucks, feel free to use Darth's. I can send it, but I believe you may already have it in the VECI label or vacuum diagrams. Cute story, yesterday I went up to Auto Zone in Onley to get some new wiper blades. One of the kids working there asked me how hard it was to replace the ball joints on Darth. He was adamant that ALL twin I-beam Ford trucks had ball joints. I finally started him, turned the wheels all the way to the left and told him to show me the ball joints. He had never seen a twin I-beam with king pins. I did tell him that as far as I knew, that was the last year the F350 2WD didn't have ball joints like his Ranger.

If you can read the emission label on the panel in front of the radiator, the vacuum diagram will be there, or barring that if you can find the calibration number (usually on the valve cover), there are diagrams on this site, I just can't find them right now. I have them here, and sent them to Gary, just haven't figured out where they are hiding.

When I installed the E4OD in Darth, the length differences were: OA length 3" longer than the C6, mount pad, 7" further back than the C6. I am pretty sure F150s got the E4OD as did Broncos, it was used on the 300 and 351 applications as the AOD/AODE/4R70W wasn't considered strong enough for the torque of those engines. This would most likely have been aero nose models (1992-96), although possibly some late brick nose models could have had it, particularly 4WD models. Gary, I would almost be scared to really push that truck hard with the Swiss cheese frame, the power that 408 has, particularly low done could probably twist that frame.

I had put a new battery in it, no visible corrosion from the old one, it was just dead. It is a cool watch, that's why I want to get it repaired.

Vinny. it has a Japanese made electronic movement. The 4 buttons around it are just part of the case. This morning I noticed it had stopped and was trying to move, second hand would twitch forward then drop back. Since we were on our way to Pocomoke City and Salisbury MD today I took it with me, and left it to be cleaned and checked. It will cost $72 but should be worth it. Best guess is 25 years old as it was probably purchased in 1994 during the Mustang's 30th anniversary. The place I left it with mentioned probably being a two step pull on the stem, and it may well be that way. In any event they send it to a central facility with a clean room (familiar with those from USN reactor work) and it will be 6-8 weeks depending on their work load. Since we only go up there every 4 weeks, it will be 8 weeks.

That's why I shared it. I haven't even used an orange can of death on my worst enemy's vehicle.

I was given a Mustang Wristwatch a number of years ago by my late wife. Possibly in 1994 on the Mustang's 30th birthday. There is no manufacturer's name just the number 131 and the information on being officially licensed by Ford.

This was done several times, keep in mind Ford and MOPAR V8s used the exact same size filter for years. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/

You will now begin to understand why a number of us have gone to later EFI systems, much simpler plumbing. As for Chilton's vs Haynes, depends on whether you like glossy or plain toilet paper. I personally do not waste my money on either one.

Sounds good to me sir. At least maybe we can find it then.

As most of you on here know, Darth is a far from stock 1986 F350 crew cab DRW pickup. First reason for some needed work, previous owner parked by feel, either when he heard metal bend or fiberglass crack he knew to stop. He had also slid on the frozen camp ground RV slots as the area was on a hill going down toward a lake. As a result both front fenders and one side of the hood were bent and a chunk of the left rear fender was broken off, He had been getting repairs at the Ford dealer in Gordonsville VA, who had a 3 day a week part time mechanic, who probably moved to Florida to work on Big Blue, or was at least related. Got him April 1994, for $4500.00, took our 1987 Horizon up with my youngest and camped in the tent area, met the owner and paid him, drove back to the tent area and proceeded to fix the accelerator pump, link was not even touching the pump lever on the Holley front bowl. Hooked up the Horizon tow bar (from towing it behind the 1977 F150 with a pickup camper) and headed back East via I 64 going off track to Northwest Suffolk VA where a good friend who could do fiberglass work lives. Proceeded to look the front end over, wash the oil off the Horizon front end and look for the oil leak. 3 tie rod ends later and it drove a lot better, tightening the oil filter adapter bolt solved the leak. While this was going on Roy Weidmann was repairing the rear fenders. Drove him like this through 2005 and into 2006, wife passed away from MS complications the end of 2005 but we hadn't been camping much since 2003 due to her MS. I had purchased a 1990 F250 parts truck for the EFI system and E4OD transmission, but wanted to go to MAF/SEFI as the bank fired 460s have a penchant for #5 cylinder problems and the parts donor engine was no different, #5 was burning oil, heads turned out to be fresh, but excessive leakage in #5 rings. I installed to top end on the 1986 short block, put in the E4OD and drove him a while as a bank fired system, I re-sequenced the injectors so they worked like a TBI or carburetor, 1467 and 2358 instead of the 1458 2367 they came as. The 460 lower intake is essentially an aluminum 4 barrel dual plane so this was a better sequence. While I was doing this, using a 302 SEFI engine harness, I did the grouping in the chassis end. My original plan was to use the 1990 dash and wiring, but there are not enough pins available in the engine harness for SEFI, a total of 32 available, 33-34 minimum needed, 1992 up, the engine to chassis interface changed to a 42 pin connector. While I was researching this I was running into a major stumbling block, no one really had much information on MAF/SEFI for a 460 as only some 1996/97 CA spec models got it. I actually had someone on a FB group say it was a unicorn, I informed him I had his unicorn including an actual FEZ3 EEC-V box, but I digress, I was contacted by Adam Marrer of Core Tuning LLC, who sold me a nice package of EEC, Mongoose Pro pass-through cable and software along with about 1 year of excellent support. We spent about 2 hours the first night while he walked me through the parameters and what to lock out in the software. Since I was still in Newport News at this time I had Cox broadband internet and digital phone so he was able to login to my laptop and show me the procedure. The advantage of using the Ford EEC rather than aftermarket, I have several spares and actually sent one to Gary for Dad's Truck. I just need ones with the ML1-441 hardware code, doesn't matter what it actually came out of. The final was the interior, HVAC etc. 1986, even a full power truck only had front power windows and locks, due to the door configuration, adding those to the rear doors borders on Mission Impossible. I had actually gotten a pair of 1987-91 rear doors when a 1996 crew cab came into Pete's Used Parts with a crushed roof, it was a Centaurus custom, with Ford/Alcoa rims and a really nice interior. Change of plans, go for the 1996 interior! so that is where the interior and wiring came from, 1996 uses a pair of plugs on the firewall, one for the front end and one for the chassis, everything is weatherproofed and the 1990 up does away with the triple fuel pumps, TFI module is remote and the EEC mounts from underhood just inside the left air box, so no need to cut into the air box area. Steering column also sits straight! I ended up with a nice, later looking truck, still with my original king pins and most of the exhaust.

One thing I did notice, I can actually find the original front and rear halves PNs and the updated front PN (after E4OD install). You can probably do the same and actually find a Ford PN for what you will be using in Dad's truck with the E4OD and transfer case since the front one needs to be longer and the rear one shorter by about 3" if I remember my measurements on the E4OD vs C6.

I have this old Mac Tools relic.

Gary, I think the approach its self is great. I was simply using what I knew to compare it to. Sorry if it wasn't easy to find. Since the list itself is from Ford's information, maybe it was just never updated? The listing for 85 says note 64, I couldn't find note 64 on either screen grab.

Ok, not knowing what else has been done, timing chain set back to earlier specs (straight up, no retard) and what kind of distributor modifications have been made, the best I can do is give you the stock settings. Timing spec is 8° BTDC with no vacuum on the advance diaphragm, but 10° BTDC won't hurt. Idle speed is 600 rpm in drive if an automatic, should be the same with a manual trans. This would be after getting the timing. one item, if the idle is at 1000 rpm with the vacuum advance disconnected, lower it first. On the timing, it is a pain to see on these with all the stuff in the way, the pointer is passenger side low down and the balancer marks run from 30° BTDC to 10° ATDC. Good luck with it, unfortunately for the next few days I will not be able to (a) access Alldata and (b) a bit busy.

First, Darth is 2WD not 4WD, no factory DRW trucks were 4WD in 1986. Here is the screen grab from what should be where Darth's would be listed.