Diary of a Restore (Thread)

Can you see the part number on the race? Could be the wrong one was installed.

grumpin wrote

Can you see the part number on the race? Could be the wrong one was installed.

No.  It is deep down there—and a timken—that I can see.  I bought a kit just in case, and I know the bearing I have is the same.  I am ASSUMING the race is as well—it looks rather exact.  My new bearing fit in it as it should.  

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Obviously someone was in there changing bearings if they cut a race off the other side.

You say that the race moves around in the hub?
Is there any radial play at all?
Is there any marks or scoring that makes you think it spun?

If it's just a slip fit with no play I would probably install with bearing retainer.
There's a reason Loctite and Permatex sell these green formulas.

No and that is what makes me so perplexed.  Everything really looks good, but I can move it a little up and down, and circle around.  It is ODD.

Aside:  Light says the only way to get these races out is with a brass drift.  I wish there was a way to “press” them out.

So, there is a bunch of play...
Any measurable radial play is not good.

I really don't know what the inside of a D61 hub looks like.
My 10.25 hub is too small to get something in behind the race that I could ress on, so I just use the same piece of 5/8 brass rod I've had for 40 years.

Tap, tap, tap your way around the circumference so it doesn't get cocked in the bore.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

So, there is a bunch of play...
Any measurable radial play is not good.

I really don't know what the inside of a D61 hub looks like.
My 10.25 hub is too small to get something in behind the race that I could ress on, so I just use the same piece of 5/8 brass rod I've had for 40 years.

Tap, tap, tap your way around the circumference so it doesn't get cocked in the bore.

I agree.  I need to find a LONG brass rod—One of the things I do not have.

Amazon says I can have a foot of 1/2" brass rod tomorrow for $12.99.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Amazon says I can have a foot of 1/2" brass rod tomorrow for $12.99.

Yes, but how long? It needs to be 12” (1 foot) I think to drive it out. The 350 drum and hub is a deep one.

Maybe an 8” would do it.  but I think that gets close to bottoming out.

A foot is 12".
Im sure that would be long enough for my hubs, but as I said I don't know yours...

You could even use a dowel or something.
Bearings shouldn't be that tight (unless you glue them in)

Big hammer, little taps.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

A foot is 12".
Im sure that would be long enough for my hubs, but as I said I don't know yours...

You could even use a dowel or something.
Bearings shouldn't be that tight (unless you glue them in)

Big hammer, little taps.

Hey Jim,

Thanks!  I found a ¾ diameter at 11” on ebay for just shy of $20. That should do the trick.  Love the idea of the dowel, btw.  Do you use a brass hammer too?

Nope. Just a heavy (3 pound, drilling) hammer.

You want a lot of oomph but do it gently.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Nope. Just a heavy (3 pound, drilling) hammer.

You want a lot of oomph but do it gently.

Seriously Jim, thank you.  Your advice is a big help.  I have always been able to work my way around a vehicle since teenage years, but I have a lot to learn to become better at it.  You have been a great resource.

Ordered the drift today.  Also have a bunch of dowels on hand just in case that I have had for a while.  Drilling hammer at 3lbs I also have.

The wobbly race is on the pass side with the bad spindle that I sleeved.  I had the wheel on today, and just took it around the block—knowing I am going to pull it and redo that race and bearing as a kit.  I am a little concerned I will need to replace the hub—but I cannot find a hub for a 1980 F350.  Any suggestions?  TK looks to have the exact replica but they say it is for an 84+.  Maybe I call them.

Anyway, after cleaning all the grease and dirt on the pass side, the right brake now GRABS and locks the rear right wheel.  SCREEECH, if I press brakes too hard.    

The park brake works now though and nothing sticks upon release.  So the replacement of the cables worked.

I'm glad to hear your brakes are working.
Having a wheel lock up is not great.  
Consider balancing the adjusters when you get done with races and seals, after giving the brakes a chance to settle in.

I suspect that the hub on offer is a Sterling 10.25 since these 'in house' axles replaced the Dana's as a running change for the '85 model year (Ford produces the next model year starting Aug/Sept)
I had a discussion with Number dummy about this. Maybe Gary remembers more detail.

Yes, it is good that the brakes are working.  And once they bed in they may not grab.

I don't remember any more details than you, Jim.  I, too, remember the Sterling axles (Ford never appears to have called them that) being a running change in '85, but I don't see anything that confirms that.  

So an update:  

I cannot seem to find a hub, which if I am looking at the MPV correctly is e5TZ-1109-A—at any rate, searches for model year, and Dana 60 turn up nada, zilch for rear hub or rear hub assembly.

JY?  Nada.

I did find THIS though at TK:  https://torqueking.com/product/21002/tk21002-new-right-side-79-83-f350-drw-right-rear-hub-12-drum-assembly/

That looks to be one for only the Dana 70.  And I do not have a dual rear.

then there’s htis:  https://torqueking.com/product/21010/tk21010-1979-1983-f350-new-drw-rear-wheel-hub-with-bearing-cups/

Again no DRW on my truck.

SRW?  sure:  https://torqueking.com/product/21015/tk21015-right-rear-hub-drum-assembly-for-1984-1985-f250-f350-dana-60-70-srw/

But that’s 84-85.  I see a ton of Dodge 180 and before for dana, but those are different.


I also did some sleuthing around the net—it is remarkable to me how many people have problems with races spinning inside the hub.    The cause?  Likely a bearing sieze, and the heat caused the race to come loose, and wear a path.  Now this seems to conform since I can see someone cut off the bearing as evidenced from the rear spindle.

So, it APPEARS I am a dead duck on this.  So what to do?

If this continues the race will be major sloppy in the hub.  The remedy from many on the net at various places—and many on a Dana 44 site--suggest, a punch all around the area to the inner hub, then something like Loctite 660, or 620.  Then press in.  I may have to go this temporary route, assuming I can get a punch in that deep to do such a things.  Some have had it work for years.  

At any rate this is where I am at for the moment. Grrrrrr.

Bummer.  

You'll need to check the clearance, as #620 is good to 0.010" (.25 mm) and #660 is good 0.010 - .0.020" (.25 - .50 mm)
Note: this is film thickness, so 1/2 whatever your clearance is.
#638 is for .15 - .25mm and #648 up to .15mm, but note the fixture times on this stuff are just a couple of minutes and you wouldn't want to use primer.

Punch marks are used to keep the bearing centered in the bore while the retaining compound sets.
I'd suggest cleaning with acetone and using one of the anaerobic primers available (I'm old enough to remember these simply as Primer T or Primer N)
They carry metal ions and are used when the metal is inactive (aluminum) or application is thick, such as this case.

Called TK this morning.

So this is just FYI:  one way to rebuild the hub is to take it to a machinist shop who can also do chroming—the trick is to chrome up the “valley” created by the spinning race.  They can get (using chrome) within a thousandths of the original.  Also, if someone knows how to work with nickle, that can work but it is crazy expensive.

The problem for me is the chroming—few people do that any more, and none near me.  

In the meantime, TK is checking around and confirming their Dana 60/70 rear hubs are only for 84+ trucks.  He said, might be a typo or whatnot and actually fit.  Chris was his name.  GREAT guy.

Onward.

Evening Update:

After the talk with TK, I did some digging.  I found something on eBay--but it does not list F-350, only 250 ¾ ton.  However, the bearing numbers match up to mine.

Does this mean it fits?  The shop wants me to try to decipher the hub casting number.  He thinks that will be the tell.

Then TK called back.  They found one.  I would need to auction myself off for it.  $500.  The bay one is more than half that price, with shipping ½ that price.  

Thoughts?

Nickel isn't expensive, or too difficult.
Chrome doesn't stick directly to steel, so needs nickel first anyhow. Plus chrome solutions are incredibly toxic.

The problem with any plating is eliminating porosity and getting consistent thickness. So in the end you usually have to build up too much and grind it to size.

At that point you could buy a refurbished axle.

Oh!  Good and bad news...

I would definitely try to get the number off your hub and match it up.
These prices are crazy! How many millions of these axles were produced?

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Oh!  Good and bad news...

I would definitely try to get the number off your hub and match it up.
These prices are crazy! How many millions of these axles were produced?

The outrageous prices are likely driven from the rarity of this particular hub—you can find a bunch of DRW hubs in this year.

I have been looking for some info on Dana 60 Ford 80-86….and from what I read (which is scant) Ford changed the spindle size of the Dana in 84—so the only hubs that will work for my SRW fitment is 80-83, but I am not sure about that.  

Today I take the wheel off again, and begin the process of fixing this somehow, even if it is the temporary punch, loctite 620 (primed with anaerobic cleaner as you suggested).  

In other words, the prices are ridiculous but understandable given the rarity of what I am looking for.  If I can see the casting number today, I may buy the hub from Ebay guy priced at Room $222 [if anyone catches that reference huge kudos].