Diary of a Restore (Thread)

Gary Lewis wrote

I think it is wise to put a speedi sleeve on.  At least you'll have peace of mind.

Are the nuts deformed?  Meaning kind of flattened a bit?  If so they are "prevailing torque" and don't go on easily.

I have new Dana 50 nuts coming (the 4 eared kind).  These are like 6 ear Dana 60s I think someone else put on.  BUT, I will try to get a shot of the threads on the spindle tomorrow for ya'll.  On that, the threads look buggered.  Not to the point you cannot get a nut on, but enough to make the initial start a bit of a bear.

Mine are the 6 ear kind as well.  The Dana 50 and 60 share a number of parts.

Do you know what the thread pitch is?
There are things called thread files that are a square stick of hardened steel with four pitches on each end that are the ticket for lightly cleaning up big threads like this that you'd never buy a die for.
Just something I'm throwing out for consideration before you bigger up the new nut on distorted threads.

Hey All ,

Update:

Thread pitch is 16.  I measured with my tap/die pitch tool.

After some thought, I checked the other nut on the spindle.  The inner one—with the wallowed out keyways—went on easy.  That nut was the reason I ordered a new set because tight keyways are easier to install nuts like this.  Anyway, it caught a little after a few turns, then went on easy by hand.

The outer one is what I used earlier.  It went on with trouble, caught, and does not go the rest of the way by hand.

I looked at the nut threads, and they look fine at least to me.

The spindle section I think is holding it up is in the pic….someone drop it, or hammer it?  Was it in Florida?  I kid.

In a holding pattern until sleeve gets here.  Hope to have this side wrapped up by the end of the weekend.

Back in the Saddle again:

Spent the day pressing bearings and joints.  Got the spindle done with new needle bearing and seal.  Ultra Black the seal to help it remain in place—kind of loose going in.  Speedi sleeve is on with Loc. 262—heated in oven for an hour…went on easy.

Got the ujoint in.  About half way through noticed a small washer inside the cap fell out…had to pull it out and put it in.  Two needles fell over too do glad I caught it.  But the Spicer u joint is in—the grease fitting is on the cap and I am rather concerned about clearance.

Knuckle is done too.  Pressed in the upper and lower.  I used never seize all around these components.  I will likely do the same on the back side of the spindle on install, which I think will be tomorrow.

I used my floor press not the ball joint c clamp tool for everything.  I am so glad I have that floor press.  Easier to figure out the combinations to press stuff on.  Makes the puzzle easier.

I will set the MOOG sleeve to 0 and see where I am on install.  Fabbing up a toe measurement with laser.  Will send pic when it is done.  We shall see how accurate I can craft it.  But I want to try.

Oh the spindle nuts came—they are rather tight getting on.  Starts for a few turns then halts.

Pics follow:

Never got to the laser/aign mock up.  Story at the end.

Got the knuckle on.  Took a bit of doing as the bottom ball joint wanted to spin, and getting a drag link on the ball joint bolt slipped.  I used a jack to push the knuckle up so I could torqe the bottom nut, and seat the top.

Dialing in the moog was really simple.  However, there are few options for my fitment.  I wanted to back off the positive camber to 1 or 1 ¼ (I believe the original was +1.5.  That is too much as you can see the tires eating away on the outside.  However, one cannot dial 0 caster and achieve anything over +¾ camber — so the next slot was adding caster ¼ to get to +1 camber.  I did that.  Super easy to do by the way.  If this does not work, TorqueKing has some different affordable sleeves cheaper than the Moog, but with less variation, but more variation than stock sleeves.  We shall see how it handles and wears.  I could go +¾ camber and 0 Caster on the Moog, and allow the native caster to take over…but after that I cannot dial anything in on 0 caster until something like +2 and above.  And THAT is that too much positive camber.  

New ball joints, etc., may also make me revise all this since the ones replaced looked original.  I cannot say they were shot by feel, but were easy to move.

Shaft went in easy.  Spindle on.  In the pics, yes, that is anti-sieze, which I smeared on ALL contact points on the knuckle and spindle.

Here is where an issue arose:  I got to the hub and rotor, and as is my problem on the wheels and hubs, the outer race came out rather easy—too easy.  I put the new one in.  Went in too easy.  I could move it a skosch with my hand, but not spin it.  The old race had the numbers on it worn off, so it spun at some point, but not like the rear hub where there was bluing.  

UGH!

In the meantime, I used a sharp tool, and made punch marks internally, then Loctite 262 (high heat) and pressed the new race in.  It is solid and does not move.  But, as I said way back when I did the rear hub, I KNOW this is only temporary.  Then I found a new old stock hub.  This time is proving a little more difficult.  So, I am in the market for a Dana 50 Manual 4x4 front hub.  

Letting the hub sit overnight to cure.  The INNER race is solid—it holds the larger bearing.  So there’s that.  I would have expected if any one would go bad, it would be the inner not the smaller outer.

OK to the pics.  If the hub did not take my time today, I would start mocking up the toe measurement tool.



 

Made quick work of a few things today then stopped.  I cannot get the pass side inner shaft out of the pumpkin—is that because the seal is holing it in?  Any experience with this would be much appreciated—I attach the TK diagram for reference below.  I got the outer shaft out from the slip yoke.  But, I’d like the inner part out to replace the bearing and seal.

Looks like I will need to speedi another spindle. Pic below.  This one was a bear to get out.  Combo dead blow and the “Bob method” worked. And lots of Blaster.  MAY pick up a spindle for saving. Both the fronts as you see have been pretty beat up.

I have a front hub on the way to keep as a spare—found a really good deal on one.  TK has them new…for $500 btw.  I opted for another route.  Recall the D side hub race spun.  I know that that fix will be temporary as I scored/punched the interior and Loc’d it with 272.

Lastly:  Look at the pass side knuckle.  Remember my D side tie rod end would not seat, and I used a washer to get it to seat up?  Well, on this side, that’s a sleeve.  And there was no drilling out of the knuckle to press it in.  Anyone have info on this?  I have tried to find sleeves for this, but so far they are all “drill out to 7/8, then tap sleeve in.”  So apparently this was a problem before me.  I used a washer but would not mind having a tapered sleeve on hand.

Thoughts?  

OK, pics follow.

Are you sure your 1980 doesn't use the 'bolt in place' passenger side shaft retainers?

Wow! I don't remember what a brake dust shield even looks like (coming from the salty NE)

Looks fantastic. You're doing a great job!  

That is a lot of PROGRESS!  

But I don't have any idea about the sleeve, although it does appear that it is a known problem.

However, I think your fixes with punch marks, ready sleeves, and Loctite will last quite a while.  So you may not need the spares soon, although they are not going to get any cheaper so it is wise to have them.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Are you sure your 1980 doesn't use the 'bolt in place' passenger side shaft retainers?

Wow! I don't remember what a brake dust shield even looks like (coming from the salty NE)

Looks fantastic. You're doing a great job!  

Hey Jim,

The right side shaft has three bolt retaining ring.  I pulled the bolts.  When I pulled the shaft, the part pf the shaft separation from the yoke, leaving shaft 12 and 13 (from the TK diagram) still in place in the diff.  It is supposed to pull out, I THINK, but if you look at the shaft that goes into the diff, it has a bearing pressed on it with a retaining ring—then the seal.  I would hate to loosen that seal and still find it does not come out.  Maybe I figure a come along approach to pull it?I am not sure at this point—taking another look today.

Also going to take another look at that sleeve that was installed.  

Knuckle removal today.

Otherwise, cleaning up the parts, painting…etc.

Pulled the knuckle, camber sleeve, pressed out the ball joints, pressed out the ujoint from the outer shaft.  No breaking of the u joint caps this time!  However, the needles were all dry, which means, my early greasing of the joints right after I got the truck were not feeding into the caps.  

wire brushed all parts, and started the rust treatment.

So, the issue remaines, the Dana 50ifs stub/yoke shaft.  I consulted the SM, and found a Dana 50 maintenance manual (Helpful, but not for my predicament).  Basically they both say, remove retaining plate, pull shaft.  Mine has play but it stops when it hits something.

How the D50s post 1983 ½ had a retaining clip in the pumpkin—imagine the only way to replace a seal is to drop the whole thing!

Mine is not  supposed to have a c clip internal.

So I am back to that seal which is pressed in—I think if anything is stopping the pull that would be it, but I dunno for sure.  Maybe I get a slide hammer and hook onto the ujoint section somehow?????

Pics follow.  Will try to get a shot with the retaining plate NOT in the way.  Also, will get a shot of the TK kit so you can see the bearing and seal—bearing and race are one unit locked together.  Original?  Looks separate, which makes the pulling of the race another issue.  But I have want to AT LEAST replace that bad seal.

Here is the Dana 50 IFS service manual—Maybe Gary can make it available to all in his docs section?

http://www.billavista.com/tech/pdf_index/files/Axles%20and%20Gears/Dana%20Spicer/5326%20Service%20Manual%20Model%2050%20IFS%20.pdf

Thanks!  

It is now on the page at Documentation/Driveline/Axles & Differentials and then the Front Axles tab followed by the Instructions tab.  And finally the D50 tab.

The only change I've made is to optically character recognize (OCR) it so it can be searched for a word or number.

OK, what a day!

I went to work on the truck at 9am and tried everything to move that pass side shaft out—yanking on nylon straps attached to the ujoint section, slide hammer, etc.  I probed the seal area too…nada.

None made it budge.  

Then decided to fab something up as a last shot at it.  I made a plate to pull my 5th gear on the Harley transmission.  I used that for the pressure point of the ball joint tool.  Then wrapped the ujoint with a small chain and bolted it together with a 5/16 grade 8 looping it around the other end of the ball joint tool.  Pic below.

Started slow.  Tried to make sure I was not pulling at an angle.  Anyway, impacted it for a while on the low setting.  As I went to crawl under to check it out…it popped out!  Boy am I glad I pulled it.  Bearing was so bad—well see the vid.

<nabble_embed>https://youtube.com/shorts/NCbmG_3iHiw</nabble_embed>

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NCbmG_3iHiw

Boy you are right!  "This is a bad bearing."  And seal.  Sure glad you pulled it.  

Dang!

Good job!

Got to the stub shaft I pulled today.  

I drilled the collar, not touching the shaft, and tried to chisel it off.  Nada.  Maybe because I needed a bigger chisel?

Anyway, I cut the outer bearing, and unwrapped it from the bearings.  That allowed me to use my apron plates to corral the collar and press it out on the floor press.

The inner bearing part easily came off with a brass drift.  Here is what was underneath—a cutoff wheel mark.  So this shaft has been out before.  I also noticed a lot of hammering divots.

Also, the section there the seal runs has a deep line cut into it.  Question is keep this and can I redi sleeve it?  OR get a new one.  Other than the markings on it and the wheel mark, I am not so sure it is unusable….anyway suggestions welcome.

Also, please insert Florida jokes here.  Gary, you are up first.

Yep,  has been there before.  But I think a redi sleeve might save it.  And I don't think I'd worry about the divots.

And the invitation is one I can't ignore:

The Florida man accused of stealing a truck full of $75,000 with of Campbell's soup is finally going to trial...
I, for one, hope they lock him up for M'm! M'm! Good!!!

Florida Man calls 911
Operator: "911, what's your emergency?"

Florida Man: "Hello ma'am, me and my buddy Jackson were out duck hunting, when a big gator came out of the water and attacked us. It bit up my leg real good, then it dragged Jackson under the water, but I scared it off with my shotgun."

O: "Okay, an ambulance is on its way. Other than your leg, are you alright?"

FM: "Yes ma'am."

O: "What about Jackson?"

FM: "Well, I pulled him up out of the water, but I think he's dead!"

O: "Can you make sure?"

FM: "Yes ma'am, I can."

[there is a pause, then the crack of a gunshot]

FM: "Alright ma'am, I made sure he's dead. Now when is that ambulance gonna get here?"

This Florida Man joke remembers me another we have here:

Moose hunting accident, the valid guy takes his shot friend to the hospital emergency.

After waiting about the doctor, this latter comes back:
— Hey Doc, I shot my friend, I swear, this was an accident!  Will he survive?
— Well, maybe I could have saved him, if you have not emptied him before taking him here...

I am still here—in a holding pattern until my redi-sleeves arrive.

Got the ball joints pressed into the knuckle, and used a dremel wire wheel to clean the shaft ujoint cap holes….now I wait.