Diary of a Restore (Thread)

Gary Lewis wrote

I use whatever brand I have available.

Thank you!


OK, I need to pick some brains here:

I installed the “new” (reman/Cardonne) pump today.  Pulley went on fairly easy, and Gary was correct the pulley worked, but man is it tight close to the pump body—not touching though.  But, it lined up for the most part.

So, hand turned it a lot and got tons of air out.  Then started it up…..MAJOR WHINE!  

The whine goes away  when I turn the wheels.  Then it comes back when stopping the turn.  Wheels turn just fine btw—no hesitation.  No whine when turning the wheels either way.

Through the cap, I see a lot of fluid from the return I surmise, running around like it is being circulated.  No bubbles, no foam.


So, I am thinking this is a bad reman?  

Have you turned it lock to lock several times to get the air out?  And made sure it is full of fluid?

If so and it still whines then I think it is bad.

Gary Lewis wrote

Have you turned it lock to lock several times to get the air out?  And made sure it is full of fluid?

If so and it still whines then I think it is bad.

Hi Gary,

Yes, I have turned the wheel 10 times fully to lock, but, never let it sit in lock for more than 1-2 seconds each cycle.

It is most definitely full of fluid.  I have felt the line under, and it all warmed up to hot.  No leaks (nice!) but that whine is LOUD.  What threw me off was the sound completely disappeared when turning the wheel.  Usually, the sound has gotten louder when turning the wheel in my experience.

UGH!

I have the pump I pulled off that ‘86 Bronco, maybe I take a shot at trying it out and see how that goes in terms of whine.  But, the Cardone pump I got from Summit was cheap so….maybe I go with the Motorcraft they sell; they also have a LARES for even more.  I like how fast they ship.

I have heard there is a quality control issue with Remans, but I have also heard Cardone’s are excellent.  

Update:  

The 1986 Bronco saved me…again.  

Verdict—Bad reman Cardone pump.

So I changed out the “new” pump to test out if the problem was indeed the Cardone.  I had that 1986 Bronco pump I pulled for the pulley.  

Everything told, took me an hour.  Not bad time I suppose.

Anyway, the Cardone whined when I backed out the truck.  Then I disassembled.  The fluid was BLACK btw—it was all new PSF.  It was only in for maybe 20 minutes tops circulating.  

So, I installed the Bronco pump, installed the pulley, filled with new fluid.  Hand cranked all the air out.  Started.  

Absolutely no whine.  Quiet as can be.  So far no leaks, but we shall see.

So, I will never buy a Cardone again.  I messed with the shaft a bit after I got it off—a lot of up and down/sideways play.  Quality control anyone?

I have heard Cardone QA has gone to crap lately on other things so not a shock on the pump.

Good to hear you had a back up but it just is a PITA to have to do the job 2 times
Dave ----

FuzzFace2 wrote

I have heard Cardone QA has gone to crap lately on other things so not a shock on the pump.

Good to hear you had a back up but it just is a PITA to have to do the job 2 times
Dave ----

I am seriously considering a Saginaw upgrade, but that will take some bracket sleuthing from all I have seen.  I have the bracket off the 86 Bronco, but that’s not enough.  From all I see, I need the brackets off a VAN.  Not sure the years with which this will work tho for my 1980.  I read the page Gary made on the Saginaw upgrade.  It is helpful, but for my fitment, no one has done anything from what I can see.  

I do not know how long this pump will last.  There are NEW pumps by….Lares I think for 180.  All the rest, including the Motorcraft are Remans.  I thought progress in society meant things get better.  NOPE!

I was happy the project took less time than it did on install—3 hrs the first go round.  This time, an hour.  Got savvy at getting that pulley off.

What did you put on your restore Dave?  You had to have changed out the PS pump.  Yes?  

Wow!  That’s really a bummer. Looks like Cardone has failed - again.

My parts truck came with a Ford pump but no motor or York AC brackets and I needed the AC brackes as I wanted AC.

Now my truck came with a motor and at the time thought is was for a F series truck.
It also came with the SAG PS pump but no AC brackets

Now I do not know what the motor is out of but when building and trying to find AC brackets I was told with that SAG pump it was from a van with a 300 six.
With that said I was now looking for AC brackets from a van that used the SAG pump.

Now I dont remember the years of vans but they had to use a V belt so guessing before EFI and if they follow the same rules as the trucks that would be before 1987 and maybe back to 1980?
Sorry I just dont remember the years.

Wounder if you were to look up PS pumps for vans if it will list the type of pump used?
Then you would know what year(s) to look for the brackets.
Unless someone (Gary?) has access to van parts and able to break down what pumps were used?
I have not looked at our documents to see if it will list pumps for vans have you?
Dave ----

edit it was not really a restore as much as a rebuild and replace what was bad.
The PS pump was not one of them parts LOL

Update:

The slow roll to completion of the major stuff continues.  

This week I finished finding all the parts and pieces for the spare tire, including finding a whole wheel for the spare—which was NOT EASY finding the same lug pattern.  However, the help of a local guy at a small yard (been around in the family for 3 generations) I got one.  So, the spare is mounted where it originally was.  That process makes me appreciate the newer gear driven cable drop for spares today.  If I was wealthy, I would invest in fabricating such.  

At any rate, started the arduous process to get ready to jack up the engine and 1) try to replace the remaining freeze plugs, and 2) replace the leaky gasket.  Got the clutch linkage off, and the exhaust at the manifold off—that bolt on the starter side is a BEAR to get to.  Had to use some gentle persuasion on the socket to get it to bite.  I am a little concerned for putting it back together because that bolt on the upper pass side exhaust is going to be tasking.

Trans and motor mount single bolts removed or loosened for lift.

Next, drain the fluids, and start the jacking, then remove the motor mounts on the engine, and try to replace the remaining 5 plugs.  Then blocking the engine and the remove the pan.  

My dipstick is all crimped and bent at the lower end, so I have a new tube coming from Bronco Graveyard (only place I could find one).  I just hope that my pan is not warped, because…where in the heck would I find a new one if it is beyond repair?  the 351/400 pans look tough to come by.

All that said, I noticed the engine block stamp today where I replaced on plug months ago:

Cheers!

I'm not sure about your 400 but on my 460 I removed the hard to access manifold stud and now use a socket head cap screw (Allen bolt) to clamp that side of the head pipe flange.  

This also lets you use a ball end Allen socket to provide even more clearance.   💡

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'm not sure about your 400 but on my 460 I removed the hard to access manifold stud and now use a socket head cap screw (Allen bolt) to clamp that side of the head pipe flange.  

This also lets you use a ball end Allen socket to provide even more clearance.   💡

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'm not sure about your 400 but on my 460 I removed the hard to access manifold stud and now use a socket head cap screw (Allen bolt) to clamp that side of the head pipe flange.  

This also lets you use a ball end Allen socket to provide even more clearance.   💡

This is a great idea.  I noticed that my flange nuts are all brass.  This is likely why I was able to get them off so easily—with the help of blaster.  If I did that, I would most likely want brass because it does NOT rust to the threads.

I am a little perplexed by the thread and size—3/8-16 or are they 7/8-14?  There is a nut one can get that looks like this (below).  

The depth of the nut would solve the problem because it would move the ability to grab on it with a socket possible.  The problem is it is 3/8, and 3/8 seems loose on my nuts, but 7/8 starts and then gets tight.  

Anyone know what those studs off the exhaust manifold are?  

UPDATE:  I did some sleuthing around here, and at FE and eventually wound up at Dorman—the company states 3/8-16 are direct fit for 351m/400 and also list the year of my truck—sooooo I will find some TALL brass nuts.

Only thing, my 3/8-16 tap is a bit loose for my liking (the 7.8 starts and stops—so 3/8s it is.  The 3/8 grabs but there is play.  What happens under, say, 30lbs torque?

1980 Ford XLT F350
400 Engine (rebuilt to 406)
Holley 2300 500 CFM manual Choke Carb
Under Restore (1st time)

I'd think it's 3/8-16. That's a pretty common fastener size on this era engine.
7/16-14 is used for bellhousing bolts.

I can't explain why your nut is such a loose fit on the tap.
Maybe it is worn from running over a harder, and rusty, steel stud?
Did it seem exceptionally loose when you removed it?

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'd think it's 3/8-16. That's a pretty common fastener size on this era engine.
7/16-14 is used for bellhousing bolts.

I can't explain why your nut is such a loose fit on the tap.
Maybe it is worn from running over a harder, and rusty, steel stud?
Did it seem exceptionally loose when you removed it?

I still like your hex cap workaround--but would love to find brass made ones and I cannot.  

I found some tall brass nuts coming and will test them out and let you know about the threads.  Cheers and thanks!

I don't think you'd find brass fasteners like that anywhere.
The Dorman kit seems popular and readily available.  

The stainless Allen bolt is working for me..... for now.
It allows me some more clearance with the Zf-5 gearbox, and I think Gary ran into this as well (before he had his L&L headers)

One thing that seems to be pretty common in motorsports applications is copper plated nuts and bolts for turbo applications where heat and corrosion are huge problems.
But I mostly see them only in metric.

I'd considered DIY copper plating which is quite simple but ended up using stainless steel.
Good luck with your project!  

UPDATE:

I received the tall brass hex nuts—drumroll please….NOT 3/8 studs on the exhaust.  They are most definitely 7/16-14.

So, I was not planning to return the ones I received, I decided to test one to make sure (I received 6 so, why not?).  I drilled out slightly, and retapped to 7/16-14.  

I then tested on the stud.  PERFECT fit.

I thought about ordering tall brass 7/16, but, they are hard to find.  Oh you can find them—in packs of 25.  Not sure if my drilling out a bit will harm the construction of the brass for torque of 30lbs (I believe that is the spec called for), but I will when the time comes.

Drained the antifreeze today.  Have to see how I am going to raise the engine.  I think I need to unbolt the entire mount from the block before raising so I can remove it to get to 4 of the plugs.  Not a fun project I must say.

Well done!  That’s just what I would have done in that situation.

And yes, you will have to unbolt one side or the other of the mounts, as well as a few other things in order to raise the engine.

Gary Lewis wrote

Well done!  That’s just what I would have done in that situation.

And yes, you will have to unbolt one side or the other of the mounts, as well as a few other things in order to raise the engine.

Thank you Gary, you are the best.

I have unbolted these things:

the clutch linkage—going to replace with new bushing, new boot, etc so I have taken it all off

exhaust at the manifolds

motor mount nuts at brackets

removed air cleaner

unbolted dipstick—not for raising, but for dropping pan, and replacing it after

Trans mount bolts loosened all the way without falling off

loosened and freed fan shroud

I have enough play in the radiator hose, but I may remove one side top and bottom if it needs it.  
The power steering has enough hose slack, so, no need there I do not think.  Fuel line is hose to the pump and then clamps onto a solid line—so there’s slack there.

Am I misisng anything?

Sorry, I'm on a cruise so wasn't in a position to reply.  But it looks like you have it well in hand.  

Gary Lewis wrote

Sorry, I'm on a cruise so wasn't in a position to reply.  But it looks like you have it well in hand.  

Cruise to where?  Nice!

And thank you as always.  Have run into roadblocks though, will relate in another post.

NYC to Montreal.... with a little hurricane thrown in just for fun.

Good luck with your other challenges!