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Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

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1986F150Six

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Lamentations 3:25.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Aaaand,
we're back to where I said "even another Huck would do".

Good for you Gary!
I'm glad it's all coming together.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Definitely sounding better! I am trying to remember which bolts had better shear strength, I believe Gr 8, but if the holes from the rivets end up being Metric, then maybe 12.9, minimum might be 10.9 for fasteners replacing the rivets. I would use flanged heads and prevailing torque flanged nuts if the room is there.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

100% with Bill here, but if using bolts I'd suggest ream to size as they will never fill the hole as a rivet would.
And ANY relative motion will quickly cause damage.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Steve83

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Banned User

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

It's all in the TSB.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

I'm aware of the TSB for the transmission cross member popping and creaking.
Ford suggests a HDPE slip sheet and controlled torque when reinstalling.

I'll have to look it up.
Thanks Steve!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Sorry folks, been decorating graves today - as well as driving a couple hundred miles. Then I hooked up the trailer, checked and adjusted tire pressures, loaded up the chain, boomers, and ratchet straps, and added a few tools, jack, and 4-way. Ready to head out in the morn.

David - The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him, to the one who seeks him; That would be me.

As for the bolts, hole sizes, etc, we have a slightly different form of the TSB here: TSB's/Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Wheels/96-15-11 FRAME - RIVET REPLACEMENT WITH BOLTS.

And, why not just include it here as well? It does say to ream the holes, which I'll do. And, I'll find flanged headed bolts and nuts in those sizes and grades.

But, this TSB is addressing replacing individual rivets, one at a time while the others hold the cross member in place. However, I won't have that as I have to take the whole cross member out. So, I'm thinking that some form of clamps should be used to ensure the frame doesn't move.

Thoughts?

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Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

FoxFord33

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis wrote

So, I'm thinking that some form of clamps should be used to ensure the frame doesn't move.

I think C-clamping pieces of angle across both rails fore and aft of the x-member would ensure no movement.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

That's kinda what I'm thinking, Steve. But I don't know that I have angle, so will 3" square tubing with an 1/8" wall do?

I think one piece above in front and one above behind, and then one below, either ahead of or behind. That way the frame can't twist.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

I see you got more squalls blowing through early this morning Gary.

Wishing you a safe trip, and prayers for all those around you who are being impacted by these historically high flood waters.

Thank you for honoring those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation!

(best I can do for flying the flag)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Thanks, Jim. I certainly appreciate that.

As for the weather, we had a thunderstorms late last night and then one during the night. But we aren't supposed to get more here in Skiatook until late tonight. However, where we are going in southern Kansas has the possibility of storms starting at 1:00 - just about when I'm supposed to get the parts.

And we surely don't need it! The water has gone down on the east end of Skiatook and people are getting their lives back together. But the flooding in Tulsa is getting worse rather than better. And the rain in southern Kansas exacerbates it as it goes into the Walnut River, then into the Arkansas, then through Kaw Lake into Keystone, which is letting water out at historic rates into already saturated areas.

So prayers for everyone are certainly appreciated.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

...will 3" square tubing with an 1/8" wall do?

I think one piece above in front and one above behind, and then one below, either ahead of or behind. That way the frame can't twist.

Very good! This is one thing you might not be able to overdo...

That's not a challenge. I guess even if you start weld-tacking the tube to the frame rails, you can still get them back off when you're done.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Welding to the frame is anathema. So I'll clamp, and I have a lot of clamps.

Anyway, we are back from the trip and have good news: Pay dirt! Here's what I got:

• The axle itself

• Track bar mount

• Track bar

• Leaf springs: both the F350 springs and the SuperDuty ones

• U-bolt plates and u-bolts:

• Shock mounting plates:

• Sway bar and mounting brackets

• Shock mounting towers

• F350 pitman arm: In fact, I have the steering box too!

• Steering linkage: It is on the axle

• Brake calipers:

• The F350 rear (4") blocks - 3 of them

• Brake line clips

• Cross member

Here are a couple of poor pics. I'll get better ones tomorrow, but what I didn't get is the front driveshaft, which was for an E4OD so would probably be the wrong length for a ZF5. And, I already have one of those so it isn't a big deal. Plus, I didn't get a double-cardan yoke for a 1345, but those are available locally.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Gary Lewis wrote

Welding to the frame is anathema.......

heck, if it weren't for the bumper mounting you could save yourself a whole lot of time and effort by chopping Big Blue's frame and welding that one back on..

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Yep. I could do that. But Ford says "WELDING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE." So I don't think that would pass their test.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

But Ford says "WELDING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE."
Heat treated frames? I think that's why, but I didn't know that until I searched why no welding on frame. Neat!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

And yet somehow Centurion stretched these trucks for years and sold as new, often at Ford dealers.

I've seen plenty of threads where guys lengthen or shorten their Ford pickups.

"Heat treated frame" often means normalizing after the cold stamping process used to create the rails because this causes lots of stress risers.

I've known a few weldors who do DOT approved frame welding on medium and heavy trucks.
The only precautions they take is preheating and using a high tensile, low hydrogen rod like 8018 or 11018.

*Edit to ask*..... How did you repair the frame when it broke behind the steering box?
Do you feel that weld compromised the structural integrity of the vehicle?
Why has your attitude changed since then?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Very true. Maybe Ford meant "Welding by our technicians, who are not trained to do so, is not acceptable."

Anyway, I have to figure out how to clean this rascal up before I start taking it apart. It came out from under a diesel and it is a huge MESS! I don't have a pressure washer, so am considering buying a few cans of engine degreaser and trying that. Or, I could take it to the car wash.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis wrote

Very true. Maybe Ford meant "Welding by our technicians, who are not trained to do so, is not acceptable."

Anyway, I have to figure out how to clean this rascal up before I start taking it apart. It came out from under a diesel and it is a huge MESS! I don't have a pressure washer, so am considering buying a few cans of engine degreaser and trying that. Or, I could take it to the car wash.

I start with scrapping the heavy stuff off first then oven cleaner then to degreaser.

Because I have a well and the dogs I don't do any big washing on site. Work has a pressure washer I used on mine when I first got it other wise down the road to the car wash where they have the pressure washing type hoses.
Or maybe its time for a pressure washer

Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I would buy a few cans of engine degreaser and apply them in the auto parts parking lot on the way to the wash bay.
A friend of mine has a kerosene fired 220V steam Jenny and that thing will blast everything off.
But you can watch it flash rust as everything dries.

I wasn't actually arguing for you to weld it, but it would save having to dismantle (and REmantle) the front end.

Maybe you can swing by Billy's place on the way home and ditch the D60 for a go through and R&P swap?
Save you a trip and you won't be tripping over it in your garage without an easy way to move it.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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