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Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

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salans7

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis wrote

One is, I think, that the TTB brackets bolt into the two recessed places.

This is unique to the F250 and F350 4x4, apparently even the solid axle trucks. Good to know.

Also notice the extra frame brace on the passenger rail that is non-existent on coil sprung trucks. Just another task I will have to figure out at some point since my formerly coil sprung frame lacks that extra bracing for the leafs.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

..... it does look like I'll want to weld the rear side of the cross member to the frame, like the factory did. I don't know, yet, if Big Blue's cross member is welded, but there's gonna be a LOT of work getting that rascal out.

Don't you own a plasma cutter Gary?

A carbon gouge arc rod would work, but not as cleanly.

Yes, the TTB pivot bushings are bolted to the bottom of the cross member.

I think you are going to find it VERY difficult to get the cross member back in to Big Blue without deflecting the frame rails.

Perhaps instead of bracing the frame rails with box tubing, another approach would be to make a plate that locates off the holes in the ends where the bumper is.
Remove it to allow the frame to spread, get the butchered cross member out, the donor in, reattach it before bolting and welding the new one back.

Or, just cut a patch out of the F-350 cross member and replace the section as first mentioned when you showed us the problem.
This would certainly be more expedient and perhaps better chance of success.

Tremendous job getting the clip clean without resorting to NaOH or Purple Power.

I'm sure your trailer is grateful.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Shaun - Until yesterday I didn't know that frame brace, or frame liner, existed. I'm going to have to check Big Blue and see if he has one.

Jim - I'm coming around to your suggestion of welding a piece from this cross member into Big Blue. Taking out the rivets was one thing when I was looking at Dad's truck and seeing the several rivets holding it in. But then seeing the frame brace/liner on both the driver's and the passenger's side that is riveted to the cross member added more misery. Then the fact that the cross member is welded to the frame on each end added insult to the misery.

I thought long and hard last night about using the technique in Steve's link to graft on the front section of the frame. But I'm not comfortable with that. And, the '95 frame has the wrong "horns" on the front so won't take the bumper. Right?

Yes, I have a plasma cutter. So I could cut Big Blue's cross member to take out all of the sawzall cuts, and then take out a similar piece from the '95 cross member. Grind and shape it to fit, and weld it back in. And, with the engine and front suspension out I can probably even get to the bottom side to not only weld there, but to fishplate it. LOTS less work and a MUCH higher probability of keeping the frame lined up.

What this plan says is that I should NOT spend time taking this cross member out. Instead get the rest of the stuff off the frame, and then strip the D60 down to the axle housing and diff and take it out to be gone through and the ring & pinion as well as the Ox locker installed. Then I can turn my attention to pulling the engine out of Big Blue, testing and rebuilding it, repairing the frame & cross member, etc.

Sounds like a much better plan to me. And, by the way, the document in the first post of Big Blue's Transformation has now been modified to reflect this new plan. And, I have ticked off one box! I'm one the way!

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

I think it was bullnosehunter that first suggested welding material back in.

I might go tangent to the top of each oval opening and straight from the center of each to connect them.
There's room to clamp the sections into alignment, it will be easy to dress the ends of your beads AND you will get both sets of 460 perch holes in one piece along with two bends or 'flanges' that will keep that most important part straight (not straight, but as it should be)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Jim - I'm not 100% sure I understand what you suggested. What I didn't understand was "straight from the center of each to connect them".

But I think you are saying to take a section as shown below, and on the back side go all the way down and take the lip.

However, that probably wouldn't get all of the 460 perch holes as there's apparently one further towards the center from the left line, above. It would be the one on the left, below. But, might it not be good to leave that one as part of the original cross member and use the perch to help align the patch by bolting through both an old and new hole? Plus, doing so bridges the weld, providing some strength.

But, it would also mean that the weld would have to be dressed smooth for the perch to fit flush.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

I guess I'm still having a hard time fathoming what your close up shots of the underside of the cross member actually show.

I'd thought the rear oval holes had been opened up close to the bolts of the perches.

My suggestion was to cut straight back from the top of each of the rear holes and cut all the way down, and back up, to the other rear hole.
This would give you a 'U' shaped piece with the bolt holes for both perches.

But obviously I don't really understand the extent of the damage.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

I don't think any of understand the extent of the damage. I've studied the pics many times, and still do not fully understand. Yesterday's pics of what the rear of the cross member looks like where the 460's perch holes are help, but since you can't get a true end-to-end view of Big Blue's cross member given that the engine and front suspension are in, there's no way to know for sure.

I don't think we are far apart on our ideas, but let's just agree that when the engine and suspension are out and the degreasing is done on BB, we can come back to this issue and craft a plan.

For today I'm going to finish up on Dad's truck by bolting the cab down, then roll it forward to give access to the lift, and putt-putt the trailer in so I can pick that front clip up with the rear arms of the lift and set it on the floor - or on those pallets. Then I can start disassembling things and maybe tick off another box in the plan.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Maybe you should put BB up and look for the clunk before getting into the F-350 clip?

It would enable you to get a more complete picture

of the damage.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, without seeing the front of the 1995 frame I can't say, but, you do not have a stock bumper. Bullnose stock bumpers are attached with 4 chrome capped bolts and two side braces, the 4 bolts go directly into the rolled in end of the frame rails (look at Dad's) the side braces attach to the sides of the frame (dad's should have those also) 1987 up, the bumper is attached to the sides of the rails with four bolts and two nut plates, the holes are slotted vertically if I remember correctly and the Sky kit appears to use those holes as part of it's mounting. I don't have any good pictures of my bumper mounts, but can probably get some for you.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Jim - Janey just helped me check out BB. With the engine running there's no perceptible movement of the bumper from what she could see.

But, with the engine off so I could be under it, when she turned the wheel the tie rod rotates on the tie rod ends. By that I mean that it spins and then it hits the neck of the ball joint in the tie rod and it stops with a clunk. Go the other way and it spins and goes clunk.

I've never encountered that, but if that's the problem then it isn't a problem as that will get replaced.

Bill - You are right, I don't have a factory bumper. But I don't think from what I can see that my bumper would bolt up properly to the '95 bumper as the profile is different. Given that and my serious reluctance to cut the frame and weld this one on, I'm probably going to do as Jim and I've been discussing and cut a piece out of the 95's cross member and weld it into BB. So, thanks but I don't think pics will be needed.

Is that what you were meaning?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

That center link always acts that way, so nothing to fear there.

We're you able to hear the sound while she was turning the wheel lock to lock?

Maybe it is the transmission cross member loose as written up in the TSB.
Not Steve's but the one for pops and clunks while turning, especially over bumps. Sorry I forget the#

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Good to know. But we couldn't get anything other than that to pop or clunk. My guess is that I won't find it until everything is apart.

Just rolled Dad's truck forward and am about to bring the 95's front clip into the shop.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Banned User

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

85lebaront2 wrote

Bullnose stock bumpers are attached with 4 chrome capped bolts and two side braces...

I've never seen side braces on an '80-86 front bumper; only '80-96 rear. '87-91 fronts have an extra plate connecting the bumper to the frame horns:

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Got the clip into the shop and off the trailer. And, I got a number of parts removed. First, here's a pic of lifting it off the trailer with the lift:

And here's a shot of it at the end of the day after removing a bunch of parts:

Here are the parts removed: sway bar & links but not mounts; shocks & shock towers; diesel perches; steering box & pitman arm; panhard rod & bracket; and bumper, which isn't in the pic.

And here's a comparison of Jim's cross member on the left and mine on the right. They look the same.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Progress is good!

Wow, you'd never see anything left of dust shields up here in salt country.
Gotta admit I'm a little envious.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Jim - Progress is certainly GOOD! But those dust shields have been bent, so I'm not sure I'll be able to use them. I hope so. As for envy, is that about the dust shields or the D60?

All - I don't mind carrying on with conversations here, but I want to start documenting Big Blue's Transformation in that thread. So I'm going to post a bit about having gotten the front clip, what my plans are, etc to get that thread going.

And, you can follow my progress in the first post, which has my evergreen checklist, the document I'm recording everything in, embedded in the first post. I'm hoping that doing it that way will create a complete package, but we shall see.

The document was initially broad-brush, but as I get closer to things I will flesh it out more. That gives me boxes to tick, and that makes me feel good.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Envious that the whole thing hasn't been eaten up by rust.

I don't really ever feel envy or jealousy towards others for what they have (or don't have)
No point in that.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Very true. There's always someone with more, and someone with less.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I've been subscribed since I first saw the thread Big Blue's Transformation.

And I see you have updated your sig in anticipation of having all those boxes checked.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Administrator

Yes, I've updated it. Trying to keep each truck's description to one line, but the one for Dad's truck is a bit long. Anyway, I took "soon-to-be" out of Big Blue's description to get it on one line. Struggled with that one, but having purchased the D60 I guess it is going to happen.

Sent a note to Sky last night asking if their FORD-FSROB-003 is the right kit, and if I need an adjustable panhard rod. But I'll throw those questions out here as I'll get better answers.

The bushings in the panhard rod are pretty much gone so will have to be replaced - unless I go with the adjustable one. But bushings are only ~$20, as opposed to the adjustable one at $139 to $174 depending on the whether you go with bushings or heim joint, and whether you have it powder coated.

But, their site says "You will feel increased road vibration with heim joints, but they will last longer." I'm inclined to go with the bushings, but what do y'all think? And, how important is it to go with the adjustable one?

And, are their other brands? I'll search for that, but if you know....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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