Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I can understand the want for any traction available in a farm vehicle.

It's owned by a roofing company, and it's their backup work truck, but mainly they keep it clean for pulling parade floats.  So it may have to drive on messy dirt with a lot of weight, and all the mud tires not only keep it from sinking, but can also soak up a few nails.  And it gets attention in parades, so it's returning their investment.  I had to take it down the highway to an exhaust shop, which is why I noticed how nicely it rides.  Later, I did a bunch of other minor repairs, including poly RA bushings, making the fuel gauge work for both tanks, planing an exhaust manifold, new battery terminals, replacing a vent window frame, aligning the doors, replacing the inner hose for both fuel filler necks, calibrating the speedo...

Mid-day update:

Remember yesterday when I thought I'd found something as a guy said they had an '88 F350, but he thought it had TTB's?  He was going to go verify what front end is under it?  Well, I called back to the place today and drew the other guy, not Tom to whom I'd spoken.  This guy said "I really thought we had a D60 down in the barn" (a light started glimmering), "but we can't find it."  I started to say "Yes, those D60's must have legs" when I thought, "Wait a cotton-picking minute!  This sounds way too familiar."  Sure enough, this is the same place I'd called two days or so earlier.

I didn't tell the guy that and he promised to make a thorough search and call me back.  But I don't hold out much hope for it.  

On a positive note I did talk to Chris at Boom's Garage.  I explained what the whole project entails and he's going to call around and see if he can find something.  But I cautioned him that I've called most of the salvages in the Tulsa area.  And, that what I really need him to do is to rebuild the diff and install the locker.

He's more than happy to do that and is to work up a quote and email it to me.  Further, he likes the Ox locker and has installed several of them.  So I may have found a good place for the specialty work.

The search continues......

The plot thickens.  I found another D60 from a '95 SRW F350, but it has 4.10 gears.  And, it costs $1000, but it is still in the truck and he will throw in all of the brackets & panhard rod for that price.  And, he will sell me the springs for $150 - either off that truck or off a SuperDuty.

So the overall pricing comes out fairly close - if I understood what Billy Young told me, that he will swap the R&P for $50.  However, I wonder now if instead of having R&P's sitting around that he'd trade for, did he mean he would install a new R&P that I buy - for maybe $275.

Here are the two options as I see them:

1997 SRW D60 in 3.54:  Have to go to OKC to get it, a 250 mile round trip.  And, I'd have either buy the brackets that David found for $300, or find them somewhere.  And, I'd have to buy springs.  Then I'd have to keep my fingers crossed that the R&P are good.

1995 SRW D60 in 4.10: Would pick it up when we go on Saturday up to Kansas to decorate graves.
 Would be the whole 9 yards, but I'd have to change out the R&P, either with known good ones from Billy or new ones, which would raise the price.

So, what are your thoughts?  

Get the '95 4.10 axle, ALL the bits and a pair of SD springs from one guy.
Rather than a used 3.54 with unknown R&P and NONE of the rest.

Since you'll be swapping to new style calipers check out the brake hose mounting because that may have changed.

Since it's getting gone through anyhow.
Either buy new or swap known good gears in.
Find a place where you can actually use the truck with 4wd engaged.
Fill it with cheap lube and change it often at first.
Maybe 100 & 500 miles of use?

So, you'd go with the SD springs and, therefore, the Sky kit rather than either the existing F350 springs and bolt them whole thing on.  Or, with 350 springs and an RSK?

(In for a penny in for a pound?)

Gary Lewis wrote

So, what are your thoughts?

From which truck are you sourcing the pitman arm from?

You are reading my mind, Shaun.  Just sitting here thinking "I need to do a package deal and inc the pitman arm awa the brake line brackets."

The beauty of this is it is a salvage in the next town away from my home town in Kansas.  In talking to the guy he asked for my phone number and, thinking he'd balk at an out of state # I said "Well, I have to tell you right up front I'm a Bulldog."  Their mascot is a Viking and ours, obviously, is the Bulldog, and we are bitter rivals.  He laughed and knew from whence I come.  I told him I'd be up on Saturday to decorate graves and he said if we strike a deal he can open the gates.

Later I talked to my brother and he said "Oh, I know Brent.  And so do both of my boys."  So, I'll call back tomorrow, introduce myself, and set up the deal.  Inc pitman arm, et al.

Anything else y'all can think of?

I think this may happen!

Sounds like you're picking up an axle in Kansas.

Gary, I thought the whole point of this was to install the cross member and RSK while the engine was out?

Weren't  you were already set on an RSK with SD springs?
Maybe I've misunderstood your intentions or misread your posts?

Used springs have already settled.  
At any rate, $1150 lockout to lockout, with calipers +steering gear and from the spring eyes down is a lot better than $1400 for a bare axle.
Though after adding $500 to go through and swap R&P, plus the $275 of a new R&P (if needed) you're back in nose bleed territory.  

Pretty far from "buy a rear ended or rolled F-350 for ~$800"

Will the guy in KS sell you the cross member too?
The 4" rear axle spacers?

Why didn't your brother tell you he was friendly with the owner of a salvage yard?
Soooooooo many questions

Yes, soooooooo many questions....

I don't know why my brother didn't tell me he knows the guy.  Nor why my nephews didn't.  But, it is possible that they didn't because they called him and he didn't have an axle.  I know he said "I just got this in", so maybe?

As for the cross member, the point IS to install a good one while the engine is out.  But I don't know that a '95 cross member is the right one.  However I've found one for $50 close to me and my plan is to get it.

As for the RSK and SD question, I think I was having second/third/tenth thoughts.  "Perhaps just going with F350 springs would give a good enough ride and save almost $600 in the kit from Sky."  But, if I'm into it this far, I'd better do it "right".

But, you have a great idea - the rear spacers!  I'll ask for those as well.

Last, finding a wrecked 4wd F350 in this area is hard to do.  And then there's the time to go get it, take it apart, find places to stash whatever comes off, and take the carcass to the crusher.  If I have Big Blue apart and taking up the space in the shop there's no good place to work on an F350.  Besides, it wouldn't have the SD springs.  So this solution, this one stop shop, is actually the best of both worlds - I get everything in one go and at what I've learned is a reasonable price.

I'd say the $350 difference between a $800 F-350 wreck and $1150 for the parts pulled more than makes up for the time you'd have into parting a wreck and disposing of it.
(Although you would probably get $350 for the husk making it a $700 difference)

Just make a list and get ALL the parts while that truck is available.

I think the major difference between the Bullnose trucks and the later aero and OBS style is the crumple zone frame horns and the bumper mounting.

You might look into it and include the cross member in your package deal

I agree the major difference is in the frame horns, but have no way to determine if that is the right cross member since I got the wrong master parts catalog when I bought.  But, I will ask him about it.  However, my guess is that this truck still has the engine in it since it has just come in, and he may not have the time to get the cross member out by tomorrow.

Anyway, here's my list, and I'm working off Brad's:

The axle itself

Front driveshaft: I don't need this as I have the double-cardan one I got when I bought the ZF5.

F350 yoke from the front of the t-case: I have a 1345 and don't know if the yoke from a 1356 will fit, but I'll ask him.

Track bar mount (mounts on engine crossmember using existing holes)

 

Track bar (goes between axle and mount to keep axle centered)

Leaf springs: As said, I'm going for SD springs, not F350.

Drivers side U-bolt plate and u-bolts: I'm getting the u-bolt plates for both sides as well as the u-bolts.  But, Brad says they are torque-to-yield.  Is that right?

 

F350 pitman arm: Will get it

Steering linkage: It is on the axle

Brake calipers: I'd forgotten about them, but will get them

The F350 (4") blocks and new U-bolts: As said, I'd forgotten about this as well.

Brake line clip: 

What did I miss?

Gary Lewis wrote

What did I miss?

Your wallet?

I didn't know that the U-bolts were TTY, but Billy at the 4x4 shop (or any spring shop) should be able to bend you up some new ones.
I have reused U-bolts before seemingly without ill effects.

I can't recall any other bits you might need.
I imagine you have reviewed the threads and made copious notes.

David - Why take it as it is going to be flatter than a flitter, whatever that is.  

Jim - It was Brad that said the u-bolts are TTY.  But I disagree.  Here's what the factory shop manual says on the D44 R&R.  Note that it says nothing about replacing the u-bolts:

Removal

1. Raise vehicle on a hoist or jack and install safety stands.

2. Remove the wheel and tire assemblies,and brake calipers.

NOTE: Do not let the caliper hang with it’s weight on the brake hose or the hose may become stretched or twisted.

3. Position jack under right hand axle assembly.  Remove the two U-bolts securing the shock absorber mounting plate and leaf springs to tube and yoke assembly.

4. Disconnect the vent tube at the differential housing. Remove the vent fitting and install a 1/8 inch pipe plug.

5. Remove the pivot bolt that secures the right hand axle assembly to crossmember. Remove the axle assembly and pull the axle shaft out of the slip yoke.

6. Position the jack under thel eft hand axle assembly. Remove the two U-bolts securing the shock absorber mounting plate and leaf spring to tube and yoke assembly.

7. Position a jack under the differential housing.

8. Remove the pivot bolt securing the left hand axle assembly to crossmember. Remove the left axle assembly.

Installation

1. Raise vehicle on a hoist or a jack and position left hand axle assembly at leaf spring assembly.  Install the pivot bolt that secures the axle assembly to the crossmember. Secure the shock absorber mounting plate to the leaf spring and axle assembly with the two U-bolts.Tighten bolts to 116-162 N-m (85-120 ft-lbs).

Jim, from what I've seen, only the lighter (under 8500 GVW) trucks seem to have the crumple zones (along with air bags from 1994 on). The heavier trucks didn't get them.

I guess a lot depends on the condition of the U-bolts (Pitting, mangled threads), and whether the guy in KS uses a torch to cut the axle out.

Bolts aren't a big deal in my mind.

So I guess it would work?

Looking up the part number or the Hollander interchange should give a definitive answer.

Just talked to him.  He's planning on cutting the frame behind the engine cross member and giving me the whole thing - as well as SD springs.  Plus the rear blocks and u-bolts if they've not been cut.  It'll be ready tomorrow afternoon.  And he's going to look for the front yoke for a double-cardan on a 1345.