Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

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Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
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Today I was looking at Big Blue today and found three things I do not like:

First, the front jounce bumper is less than an inch off the top of the spring.  Is that correct?

Second, as you'll see in the pictures below, there are only 3 bolts holding the left engine stand/perch to the crossmember and frame.  In other words, there are two bolts missing.  So, should I assume they should all be there?

Last, and probably by far the worst, is the crossmember.  I'm going to include a bunch of pics to show what I found, but I'm very sure that Ford did NOT leave cuts like these in the crossmember.  Does someone have an F250 w/a 460 that could take pics of the crossmember?














Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

BullnoseHunter02
Defenetly some clean cuts! I honestly might look into welding pieces back in place their if you find it is comprimising the integrety of the truck, and thats defenetly not a Swiss frame, those were 80-late 81. Maybe it was something Ford did to make sure that 460 fit. Its not exactly a small engine!
Hunting for a Bullnose, single cab, 8 foot bed, decent shape with little to no rust! and under 10k in near or around the STL Mo area, (Illinois is a valid option aswell!)
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

grumpin
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I"ll take some pics.

 Could you take one further back so I know where to shoot from?
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1997 Mazda 626 LX 2.0L G25M-R
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
Oregon
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary,

I'm certainly no help, but I noticed in that first picture there is an aftermarket bolt. Were the engine perches changed at some time? The cuts don't look natural...but I have no idea.

1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Blotchy paint, original bare bones stripper.
2013 Volkswagen Golf TDI My new fuel sippin' mile-eater for work.
2015 Lexus IS250 AWD F-Sport Mrs. Rembrant's ride. Far too fancy for me. All I do is wash it for her.
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by grumpin
Grumpin - I'll take more pics tomorrow, but those were taken around/over the front sway bar and I was laying in front of the tire.

Cory - The perches are red.  RED!    So they've been off and some !@#$%^&* painted them, sorta bolted them back on, and butchered the crossmember to boot.  

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

85lebaront2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Will pictures from a 2WD F350 help? I probably have some and can get more tomorrow. It looks like the crossmember was cut to get access to the mount to adapter bolts which normally are not remotely accessible with the mounts bolted to the perches.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, 2wd pics would help 'cause the crossmembers are the same - right?

And, I agree that they probably cut things to get to those bolts.  But......
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Rembrant
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Cory - The perches are red.  RED!    So they've been off and some !@#$%^&* painted them...
Oh...
See, that red paint would bother me more than the sections of the frame being cut...lol. Not that I dislike red, but I hate it when people paint things weird colors like that.
1984 F150 4X2 Flareside. Mild 302 w/GT40 heads, BBK headers, Holley 4bbl, Comp Cam, M5R2 5spd swap, Magnaflow full duals. Blotchy paint, original bare bones stripper.
2013 Volkswagen Golf TDI My new fuel sippin' mile-eater for work.
2015 Lexus IS250 AWD F-Sport Mrs. Rembrant's ride. Far too fancy for me. All I do is wash it for her.
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
There are red mounts on the engine, red links on the sway bars, red brackets for the A/C compressor, and even red poly mounts for the suspension.  

Much of that is going to change when the engine is out.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

salans7
Wow, usually people butcher the frames to put a 460 where it wasn't originally equipped. Can't say I've seen someone butcher an original 460 frame for a 460.
-Shaun
1980/86/90 Ford F350 4x4 351W/NP435/Sterling
2003 Ford Ranger V6/M5OD/8.8
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

grumpin
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
Grumpin - I'll take more pics tomorrow, but those were taken around/over the front sway bar and I was laying in front of the tire.

Cory - The perches are red.  RED!    So they've been off and some !@#$%^&* painted them, sorta bolted them back on, and butchered the crossmember to boot.  
OK. I'll take some tomorrow.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1997 Mazda 626 LX 2.0L G25M-R
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
Oregon
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by salans7
Shaun - Apparently there are NO honest mechanics in your state.  Certainly Vernon found none.  Everything he had done was done so poorly as to be criminal.

Grumpin - Thanks.  As well I.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis


Gary, here is my F350 4x4 cross member... is this the correct opening?
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jonathan - I don't know.  I haven't gotten my head around what I'm looking at there.  But that's for the IDI, right?  And the 460 has a different crossmember, so I don't think it is the same hole.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

ArdWrknTrk
Gary,
I have some good shots of my truck's cross member being power washed at the beginning of my Flickr set '460 repower'

It is raining atm, but if you want me to take some pics when it dries out lmk.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

ArdWrknTrk
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary,
In reply to your first post.
Yes the bump rubbers are very close to an F-250's reverse arch springs.

In large part to the TTB's inability to deal with geometry changes and partly because of the way the TTB twists the leaf spring on its bushing and shackles.

There was a little discussion about this in the previous 2wd to 4wd F-250  thread.
I have no idea what Ford was thinking and Bill refers to it as a crackhead design.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

85lebaront2
The sad thing about the TTB, the F150 version with coil springs is very popular in the off road racing world due to it's ability to take extreme amounts of travel with no problems. Had Ford simply used the F250/350 2WD style suspension on the 4WD models they would probably have worked as well as the F150s did and ride a whole lot better.
Bill
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Jim - It is raining here as well, and may do all week.  No need for any of us to get wet as I'm not ready to do anything quite yet.  But, I do want to do some planning, so seeing what I have vs what it is supposed to be would help.

And, here's one of your pics.  Don't think I'm going to find a better shot.  

Looks to me like they opened up the back of the two holes by sawing the horizontal and vertical parts out
to just above the bolt line for the perch.  And then only put one of the three horizontal bolts in.

Thoughts on what to do?

As for the suspension, sounds like it is correct, albeit poorly designed.





Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in bac, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, I don’t think the IDI has a special cross member, just different perch plates. I could be wrong but I’ve never heard of a difference and folks swap them all the time and don’t have to modify anything 🤷‍♂️
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

ArdWrknTrk
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I'm glad the picture helps you visualize what WAS.

If it were me, at the very least I'd install the other bolt and weld some material back in.
If there were a source I'd consider replacing the cross member.
I don't like square notches or the stress risers they create, at all.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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