FuzzFace2

Gary got me going back to this with his Calculator page http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/calculators.html and having fun with numbers. I got to say the speedo & tach are spot on in my truck (300 six / t18 / 2.75 gear) as I have checked the speed with a GPS shortly after I fixed the speedo gears and just yesterday on the way home was able to see the mile posts, cant do that at 2am in the dark! The mileage is also spot on so a few more tank fills and I should have a good idea of MPG. At 70 MPH & 29" tire I run about 2300 RPM. So with the information given it looks like I will be looking for a M5-R2 from 88 - 91 small block trucks, if I get lucky maybe a ZF but will not hold my breath. Right now my granny gear is 17.38 (6.32x2.75=17.38) that is to low with out a load. 2nd gear is 8.50 (3.09x2.75=8.495) and is a little to high for my liking. The M5-R2 first with my 2.75 rear gear would be 10.73 (3.90x2.75=10.725) That is good for normal driving but with a load is not so good. With other rear gear numbers: 3.90x3.08=12.01 is better 3.90x3.25=12.675 is better yet but wonder if maybe to low with out a load? But starting out in 2nd gear, 2.25 3.25x2.25=7.31 is even worst than my T18 of 8.50 is now so no 2nd gear starts unless we go a lot lower in the axle and that defeats the over dive at that point. So Over Drive what numbers do we get? (RPM @ 70 MPH) Stock now 1.1x2.75=2.75 (2300 RPM) (RPM @ 65 MPH 1507) (RPM @ 45 MPH 1435) .80x2.75=2.20 (1784 RPM) .80x3.08=2.464 (1999 RPM) .80x3.25=3.60 (2110 RPM) The thing to keep in mind is this is for a low revving straight six and the numbers I have are carb: 120hp @ 3000 RPMs / 255tq @ 1400 RPMs So from what I see the M5-R2 with my 2.75 gear is a good starting place and if I was to do a gear swap a 3.08 would be good for the lower first gear load pulling when needed but not so low to be like the T18's granny and I get a good OD ratio with both the 2.75 & 3.08 where and 3.25 only gets me a little lower than what I have now with the T18 & 2.75. Also this will not pull the trailer all the time, it is a back up when needed and so far in the almost 5 years down here I have only used the trailer to bring the 2 trucks home and that was like 6 months after we got here. Dave ----

Further, if we kept the Transfer Case section in that box you'd have the overall ratios for each gear in the t-case's low range. And, to do that I would put a place up in the blue input section for the OD ratio, which would only be used in this box. Is that kind of what you are looking for on that? If I under stand it right yes what you said (posted). For me and maybe others? I want to find a total first gear ratio a little lower than my 2nd and higher then granny 1st gear in the T18 and still have OD to keep the final drive RPM down. I have not run any numbers yet but it looks like I will have to go lower in the rear gear to get what I want at least from a M5-R2 and your data. The M5-R2 was the only data I did not have in my list of transmissions, thanks. I had to LOL when I saw 14,xxx RPM in first gear for what was the speed 65MPH? Dave ----

I also run a PMGR starter on my drag car that the starter wiring started stock just like Fords. IT is also wired just like the link has it, both battery cables on 1 large post, 10ga, wire down to PMGR starter to it's solenoid post and the large battery cable to the large post. I liked the starter, non-off the shelf, so much I bought a HD unit to replace the unit in the drag can and will use the normal one in the street car when the time comes. What is nice on the starters I use is they are so small you can replace the starter with out removing long tube headers https://www.robbmcperformance.com/ They also have HP fuel pumps and other things all made in the USA! Dave ----

Thing is he is above the accel pump travel at the RPM he is running when this happens, foot to floor and only backs off a little to get it to shift into high. If racing go for a Holley carb and shelf that Eldy. I believe that is the only good place for a Eldy carb and even more so when racing because of the fuel PSI issues. I run Holley's on my cars I have dragged raced, 2300 v2 on a stock AMC 304 and v4's from HPDP 650 to 750's on a built AMC 360. I also run a full MSD set up on the 360 as it is my drag only car. I think the governor is what the issue could be. I run a full manual reverse shift pattern TH400 on the drag car after burning up a new trany with just 2 1/4 mile runs. Not enough vacuum from motor (big cam) to shift. It also has a custom 3000 stall converter now. Now the 304 car is a street car, TF999 (HD TF904 but less than a TF727), and I would also have to back off the throttle to get it to shift into high but with the rear gear the car had the times or speed did not change thru the lights in 2nd or 3rd gear at just under 90 MPH, 2.89 rear gear. Car did have a shift kit and would shift normal til you got on the gas and would chirp the tires going into 2nd gear. This car only used a down shift rod no vacuum so I adjusted it to be the best it could be both on the street and at the track. I was building the track car and did not want to start making a lot of changes. I would find a transmission shop that does race tranys and run it by them on the shifting to see what they have to say. I am sure once the shifting is tanking care of the miss / back fire will not happen. If it does then fix that issue. As they say "Only fix 1 issue at a time" because if you try fixing all at the same time and now you have other issues what did you "fix" before that caused this new issue? Good luck and keep us posted on the fixes. Dave ----

Dave - That's a lot to take in, so let me see if I can condense it to get my head around it: Drop-Downs: I don't know how to make the drop-downs visible all the time. But I'll check to see if I can, although it will take some time. Ok just for a non-computer geek they would not know this was a drop down and why I say have it show. Go Too Low: This I don't understand. You said "you type something in and it shows but it dose nothing as it should". What do you mean by "go too low"? Too low in the parameter, like tire size? Or to a cell too low? Sorry, but I'm dense. Help! On the drop downs anything including and below “tire dia” you can click on and a box pops up and you would think you could type something in the box, and you can but it does nothing Why not list the gear ratios for the transmissions & transfer cases then list the formulas for the others for speed at what RPM or RPM is the speed? This is another one I'm lost on. What formulas are you looking for? I guess I miss spoke on this as you do have the ratios listed in the lower green box with the transfer case ratios. Guess I was fixed on the “speed & RPM” in the upper green boxes LOL See below on the formulas I talk of. Total Ratio: This I think I understand, but still want to ask some ?'s. Are you looking for the total ratio in each gear? On all of the transmissions at the same time? Yipes, that's a lot of new cells. If that's what you are looking for then maybe it should be on another sheet? Use this one to find RPM and/or MPH, and another to see the gearing? Or, did I misunderstand? Not in a box like you have done already and maybe you want to redo what you have? As I said above you have the gear ratios for the transmissions but list the formula as trany gear ratio X rear axle ratio = final ratio trany gear ratio X rear axle ratio X over drive ratio = final ratio Something like this I ran for my 81 F100 with a T18 & 2.75 rear gear and what the final ratio would be with and with out the GV OD unit in each gear as that was what I was looking at for OD but have changed directions. T18B = 4.32, 2.26, 1.51, 1.00 & Gear Vender Over Drive Unit = 0.78 4.32 x 2.75 = 11.88 stock from factory 4.32 x 2.75 x .78 = 9.27 (x.72 = 8.55) 2.26 x 2.75 = 6.22 stock from factory 2.26 x 2.75 x .78 = 4.85 (x.72 = 4.470 1.51 x 2.75 = 4.15 stock from factory 1.51 x 2.75 x .78 = 3.24 (x.72 = 2.99) 1.00 x 2.75 = 2.75 stock from factory 1.00 x 2.75 x .78 = 2.15 (x.72 = 1.98) I think the x.72 was for the Advance Adaptors range splitter OD unit? Once you know the final ratio in any gear you could then figure any speed or RPM in any gear like you did in the first 2 green boxes, you had to use a formulas for them and then post the answers in the boxes. I guess what I am asking is have boxes we could fill in the information we have (tire dia, final ratio & speed) to find RPM or any combo of the 5 to find what you need. So, please help me understand. Did I just add more mudd to the water BTW for most of my cals I use http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm Dave ----

Some of the (too many) pictures make it look like a model / fake. Was that $1800 to rebuild the rear end? Wonder what all was rebuilt on it? Did that include the disc conversion? So 10k in parts if I read right so the rest of that mill is what? If that is going for BIG BUCKS I can just think what that Cosworth Vega and that AMC Pacer (most likely not a rare v8) are going for? Dave ----

And shipping on top of that Guess rent was due first of the month Dave ----

Congrats on the job & house hope it has a place out of weather to work on the truck / projects. Most of the time that "clunk" is a bad connection and you have 6 on just the battery cables and the relay has to have a good ground to the fender. What relay did you remove and install? If 1 or the other came with the truck I would be temped to reuse it then again I am lazy and would try the one that is in place and replace ALL the cables if you say they look like they could use replacing. Once you replace the cables, you may find now that power is getting to where it needs to, all may be good. Dave ----

The only thing I had as issue with is in the blue table when you move the mouse over areas it does not do anything to let you know you have a drop down to pick from. I started clicking all over before I found the drop downs. Then when you go to low, no drop down, you type something in and it shows but it dose nothing as it should. Any way to make the mouse show the drop down when over it with out clicking and make where there is no drop down so you cant type anything. Then again maybe it just me? I do like the tire size deal but why not list the gear ratios for the transmissions & transfer cases then list the formulas for the others for speed at what RPM or RPM is the speed? The other I find helpful is total ratio for the trany gear ratio+rear gear ratio=xxx I find this helps when you know what you have in the truck or car. Say you know first gear is to high, slipping clutch, and you want to swap tranys for something with a lower first gear and maybe an over drive and maybe not change the rear gear to get what you want. You could then use this information and the formulas to check speed & RPM's. ie: I know my T18 granny low is to low for normal driving and I feel the 2nd gear is a little to high even with out a load. I don't want to go lower in the rear to make 2nd gear good for normal driving but my high way RPM will now be higher and not wanted so looking at different transmissions. (the M5-R2 is looking good over the hard to find ZF5) Sorry so long Dave ----

The thing is even for the easy system with the 3 port valve like my 81 the wiring for duel tanks is part of the trucks wiring harness. Yes you could run your own wires for this but what if you have a EFI and that valve also does the gauge switching, try running wires for that. As for rear tank parts I think you would do better (cheaper) going with used parts. Any truck with a rear tank will work. You will also need the cross member just in front of the tank as it is different at least on the non-rear tank flare sides. You get the filler neck & door. Oh the doors are different between style sides & flare sides, different sizes & curves. Then you have the fuel and the evap lines you could also use. Then again what ever makes your boat float Dave ----

Bill, yes they are cousins. When I was drag racing my other Javelin and there was a MOPAR meet they would let AMCs run with them and we would do the same at AMC only races. It's a shame he lost AMC parts as they are really really hard to come by. You don't hear much of the Traco team always of the Penske team. I remember reading of someone trying to put a Traco car back in racing order for the old time SCCA meets but cant remember where that was now? Maybe on the AMC forum I am on? Gary, I did not reinforce anything. I cut out the rotted parts of the frame and made new parts to weld in for the inside & bottom, the outside & top were in good shape. That part across the lower front is the lower radiator support. At 1 time a vender was making them and I got that one just in time along with the battery tray. The vender had a hart attack and died, his kids did not want to pick up this and no one knew (kids also) who he used to make the parts for him so they are no longer made. At one time I was really thinking of seeing if I could talk to the kids to see what I could come up with to carry on with the parts but I was not in a place at that time to take it on. Anyway that little frame fix is what got me going to restore the car because when I put a little paint on the repair the rest of the car looked like junk LOL Dave ----

Well if I get the Javelin running like it did before it was parked for 4 years I should be able to move when ever I need to. I am pretty sure it was not running too good because of the bad gas. I had stableizer in it and I know it is older than 5 years. I also know there cant be a lot left in the tank as I only dump 5 gallons in at a time just to move it. On the gaskets I know you said you where going to send them, did you? I have not seen anything come yet and if they were sent hope the wife did not throw them out thinking junk mail Dave ----

The headers are fender well headers. If you look them up for any car / truck they all pretty much look like that for 2" pipes. The only ones I have not see like that were for a Jeep CJ, they were somewhat normal looking. Dave ----

Thanks I also go for the orphan's & under dog's. That one is my street Javelin I also have another I built as a 1/4 mile drag car 360 AMC power, then have a 75 factory v8 / auto Gremlin. I was bit hard by the AMC bug LOL. Dave ---- Well took the truck to work and dumped the cardboard but had to fill up to get home. Front tank took just under 10 gallons and I went 122 miles came out to 12.6 MPG I got to say the truck runs great, 1 pump of the pedal and tap the key and it is running. Even warm just tap the key and it starts. I am going to enjoy it the way it is for now. Also filled the rear tank and so far it's not leaking and the gauge is working ....but.... there is always a BUT! I cant fill it with any speed like I was before. I was afraid when moving the tank but not the filler hose I might have caused an issue and it looks like I did Dave ----

Thanks I also go for the orphan's & under dog's. That one is my street Javelin I also have another I built as a 1/4 mile drag car 360 AMC power, then have a 75 factory v8 / auto Gremlin. I was bit hard by the AMC bug LOL. Dave ----

As a start a link to the AMC site I am a member of and when I started project back in 2009 http://theamcforum.com/forum/my-70-javelin-street-car-restore_topic11725.html And because I lost my domain name the picture links are broken but here is a link to my Javelin pictures http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/70-Javelin-Mark-Donohue?page=1 When I first started the truck and was talking of the firewall swap and was catching slack from some others were on my side as they knew what I could do as they were members on the AMC site also. Frame rot Just a tease of what I did to the frame, check out the pictures and I will start a thread. Dave ----

On the head lights I have not had the truck out since just before Xmas so when I get it out at night I may not remember what they were like other than I know they were too low and I just gave 3 or 4 turns of the screw driver. On the fog / driving lights I have not really looked into it. Almost got the creeper out today but if I tried to do any adjusting I would not be able to tell much as it was day light out and why the creeper stayed where it was But I think I may have to break out the Dremel to make the slots a little bigger to get more adjustment. Maybe this week I will look into it as we have 1 night we all will be up late so I can test everything When I do I will for sure post what I had to do. Dave ---- I took the truck to work Tuesday and got to say don't know why I waited so long to do the head light relay upgrade. On low is like running with the high beams on, love it. I plan on taking the truck to work the rest of the week just to run it but want to use the gas up in the front tank to see what MPG I am getting now that is the only tank I have run. I will then fill the rear tank and hope it don't leak after pulling the sender to fix the float and hope the gauge works again. And for them that don't believe I will use the truck, I filled it with cardboard I will take to work. Only took me an hour to change my avatar! and I am not happy with it. I could not get the sizing, cropping right and look good. At least it is of the full truck now as all I was getting was the front or back half It was to look like this The cardboard came from the house garage when I pulled the street Javelin out so the pick up could go in. And this is the Javelin that went into my garage as the next project. I will be checking in from time to time to keep up on things and will be looking for a 5sp transmission for the truck as that will be the next big thing on the list for it. Dave ----

Looks good, I got to get under mine to see what it will take to adjust mine but with the head light relay harness installed it is now like driving in day light LOL Dave ----

It is and is not just yet. You have normal insurance coverage on the truck and not classic coverage? Do you know what book value is on the truck? I take it you don't know what it will cost to repair it yet? They can say, her insurance co., will cover it but when they find what it will cost to fix and the trucks vale it could be a total lost. That is why I asked on the insurance YOU have. I have seen it posted too many times guys having older cars & trucks driving them most of the time with normal insurance and has a fender bender where they can still drive the car / truck but it is totaled because of what it will cost to repair and the value of the car / truck. When you get close to the 75% of value of car / truck for the repair is time to worry! Hope it works out but let this be a warning to others. Yes I have classic insurance on my truck for $11,000 value and I get to keep it if totaled. Good luck Dave ----

No trip counter in this truck. The MPG is what I got on the first tank and could be off some, I hope. I will know better on this next fill as I am trying to track it just to see how good or bad it is over the Durango that gets about 14 with the AC on. Dave ----

Thanks Other than sitting the last 4 years and need to go thru the fuel system again, most of the body work done other than after the doors to the rear is done to hardest part is inside. No one makes seat foam and I need it all and the covers I want are $1000 for just the 2 bucket seats and the rear another $1000. Forgot what the door panels cost but not cheap from what I remember. Oh I have to make the head liner as no one makes that either. They say it's only money right? Dave ----

But, I hear it was a dog, stock? LOL yes it was but getting 21+ MPG and a little lower pulling the trailer but I lived with it for 100K till it got a little boost LOL Just before the first year was up, had over 12K on it by that time, I had the LS clutch housing go bad and when I was changing that I went with 4.11 gears (from 3.08 I think it was) and that helped be less of a dog till I hit the 100K mark. Dave ---

At 20 when the 80 models came out I was not paying much to them as there was no way I had dollars to even think of getting one. What I do remember is when helping a buddy at the gas station a customer stopping in with a dark blue one, don't remember the year, with gold pin stripping and thinking it was a nice looking truck but that is as far as it went. Cant even tell you why I picked the truck (flare side) I did other than it cough my eye and the price ($800) was not bad at the time LOL. In 86 when looking for a new full size SUV I don't even remember looking at Ford Bronco's. May have had to do with motors for pulling a trailer? Only gave a quick look at Dodge (could get a 360) but was hooked on the GM diesel in the Blazer and could not get a diesel in anything else. Dave ----

Actually it’s the opposite. With diesel, the more fuel you add is the hotter it will run. That’s how novices melt their pistons trying to squeeze a little more punch out of their engines without a turbo. The turbo adds air and allows you to burn more fuel safely. If you don’t turn the fuel up, the turbo will have little effect compared to natural aspiration. But you don’t want black smoke (just light grey at WOT) and you don’t want your EGT’s over 1,100*F under max load. Generally a turbo will have you running cooler than NA under most conditions. NOT turning your fuel up cripples your turbo system in two ways. 1, your IP pretty much puts out what can be burned naturally aspirated. So adding air burns it a bit cleaner but does not add much power. 2, the turbo spools off of exhaust pressure form heat expansion of gasses. Adding air lowers the exhaust gas temperature, so at stock fuel settings the heat is low and does not spool the turbo very well, which cripples its effectiveness (i.e., you will have a hard time getting any boost out of it). Another thing to remember about building boost is that ignition timing and valve timing affect exhaust pressure. You can’t do anything about valve timing without switching cams, but you can build more exhaust pressure and help the turbo spool by retarding the injection pump timing. This will also shift your power band, so you will have to play with it and see where you like it for your set up and how you use the truck. Just be aware that the factory manual centerline of 8.5* probably won’t give you the best results with a turbo. The bigger the turbo, the more true this is. The little kit turbo’s don’t need much to get them going, and you may be happy with it at 8.5*, but if it isn’t building much boost you can try a little less timing. Vary true on more fuel more EGT and the need to keep and eye on the EGT gauge. Also the only time my Banks /6.2 made boost is under load, read moving. If you were to just stab the throttle the boost gauge would not move. When I installed my system it turn a dog into a big block gas motor as far as driving but had the MPG of the diesel it was great! Also may want to up the dia of the rest of the exh. system. My 86 Blazer had factory duels but the banks kit cane with single 3" from down pipe to tip of tail pipe. Dave ----

Shaun, So that is the M5OD-R1, right? It looks almost the same as the M5OD-R2. I see you have a short shifter on there like a Hurst or Cores? How do you like it? Can't help with your current issue, but curious what fluid you're running in that trans? My M5OD is notchy to shift until it gets good and warmed up. I currently just have regular old ATF in it...nothing special. Wondering if there was a better fluid that would make the thing behave a little better. I would think with ATF it would shift pretty much the same cold or hot? Now if it had 75-90w I can see it shifting different cold (hard) and hot (easier). Dave ----