85lebaront2

You did take the regulator and brushes out first I hope.

Gary, a couple of items, first, the injector harness from a 302 fits nicely on the 460, but certain items like the throttle body connections and coil wiring need to be moved. Second, how much room is there near the existing grommet? Would one of those Lincoln Continental 40 way connectors work for the EFI feed to the engine? This would give you a single main connector for the engine close to the EEC and you could possibly raise it slightly.

Now you see what I meant about the location of the grommet in relation to the 460? Now back to our regularly scheduled program Gary asked me to post some pictures of the 2 and 4 socket relay boxes I have. Either of these can be mounted behind the truck PDC as they have two screw holes for small horizontal screws, the 4 socket one also has two vertical holes for a different mounting location (back of the air filter bracket?) Each has two plugs, a gray one with 4 wires, one large orange one, one small black/light green one, one small purple/orange one and one small black/pink wire. The black plug has only 3 wires, one large yellow wire, one large yellow with red hash wire and one small black wire. The affiliated circuits from the trailer tow diagram are: Yellow w red hash, 37 from fuse 16, 30 amp maxi fuse Yellow, 37 from Fuse 4, 25 amp fuse Purple/orange, 298 from fuse 5 Orange, 49 to trailer battery charge Black, 57 to ground Black/light green, 963 to trailer backup lights Black/pink, 140 from backup light circuit The black connector is C105, the gray is C112. On the diagrams C105 is detailed, but C112 only has one of it's four connections noted. On the two relay box, the wiring harness has F4TB-14A346-AC on a label, the four relay seems to have had one that is missing. Plugs on end of harness. Inside of the box, still had 2 relays in it! This also seems to be a modular unit with a two relay block, one short tab and one long tab. The four relay box is wired the same way, but only uses slots 1 and 2 with 3 and 4 being empty and no wires. With the red interlock plate removed you can see the inside and the terminals. If you look between the two sockets there is a small black "hook" there is another one between sockets 3 and 4. these hold the red plate on and can be released with a small pick while carefully lifting the red portion one end at a time. On the unpopulated end you can see the small tabs that retain the terminals. They are the strip visible from the bottom of the slots. To remove a terminal, this has to be carefully pried over just far enough for the terminal to slide out while being careful not to break it. Top red cover, the slot between the two relay areas is where the hook retains the top. On the top view following you will see the opening to insert a small pick to release the top. If you break these it isn't as critical as breaking one of the terminal retainer tabs, the top won't come off as long as there are relays plugged in.

No, I haven't found one yet. I usually look for damaged fuse boxes at friendly junkyards (not Pick-n-Pull) that I can get cheap or free for parts.

Will do. On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 5:28 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

Yes, that is correct. I found my spare relay boxes, one two relay and one that will take 4 relays. Bill On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 3:51 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

I realised reading through the multipin ones, I gave you a correct total, but incorrect count by size on the Lincoln Continental ones, it is 12 .110 and 28 .060 On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 3:12 PM Bill Vose <redacted_email_address> wrote:

Under large pin connector/Interior use, the very last picture is the plug end of a weatherproof 4 pin. Other than that, looks great! Bill On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:40 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

Any further word on this? Just wondering if you got it fixed.

Ok, on the connectors page, under pictures, small pin connectors, using the id of the pictures as top left 1, top right 2 etc. Picture 1 round 8 pin connectors, these have a flat O-ring inside the male housing and are used both inside and out. In front of the 5 different colors are the seals for the open end which are used outside the body. They come with varying numbers of holes, the red pieces are the retainers, flat is for the male insert shell, ribbed for the female plug. Picture 2 is an end view of them. Picture 3 are the 4 pin variety, again made in open and closed end, but also made with white closure to insure the rubber seal doesn't work out (this style seems to be used on O2 sensors). The end seals are in picture 6. Picture 4, multi small pin, used in applications where a number of circuits are needed, radio systems with amplifiers, CD changers, electronic automatic climate control, remote keyless entry systems are examples. They are used as a plug into modules for these applications. Picture 5, side view of connectors in picture 4 Picture 6, seals and locking pieces for connectors in picture 3 Picture 7, female small pin terminals. Picture 8, male small pin terminals Second tab: Pictures 1 & 2, female and male .110 terminals Pictures 3 through 14, non-weatherproof connectors, although in 1987 and 1988 Ford used these, grease packed as external connectors replacing the previous rubber filled "pull apart" connectors as are used on the Duraspark ignition connections. Picture 15 is a 4 pin female shell, that can mate to a male version or a sensor (EGR for example). Tab 3: Pictures 1 - 5 are some 40 way (8 .110 and 32 .060) connectors from a 1995 Lincoln Continental, they were the "bulkhead" penetrations and were located on the side of the cowl at the rear of the right front fender, these are weatherproof outside (bolt end) but unsealed inside/ The inner portion of the connectors were snapped into holes in the cowl from the inside sealing them, the black channel was for the inside harness to retain it in place. Pictures 6 and 9 are some connectors used on late 90s into the 2000s Panther platform (Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis and Town Car), they have 4 .110 and 8 .060 provisions and are weatherproof as they are used underhood. Picture 7 is a male/female 4 pin flat 1/4" interior connector. Pictures 8 & 12 are two pin .110 connectors, used on sensors, trailer brake feed, auxiliary relay boxes and similar, I have seen them with only 1 lead. The rubber end seal on these and the 4 pin ones is extremely deep. These are used on ABS actuators and other high current locations Picture 10 is a 3 pin for male .060 and was a special application. Picture 11 is some 2 .060 pin connectors, mostly used on ABS sensors and the end seal is captured by the end of the shell.

Once you find one, hopefully in a junkyard with the EEC still in it and enough of the harness to have the grommet, you can see about running your EFI harness through it. You have a fuel pump relay on your firewall, and the mystery one is probably the tank selector relay. I would consider changing the two on the firewall to more readily available Bosch relays in an enclosed socket (covered) or relocating them to the PDC. The inside EEC mount also has a place for a PCM power relay, I would change that socket for a normal Bosch and use one of the fog/headlight relays with a mounting tab. The other option would be to have a socket that can be mounted to the EEC bracket so a regular "cube" relay can be used.

I will go over them tomorrow. Bill On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 10:55 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

The dotted oval would be where the hole and rubber plug on the dash would be. You need to find the EEC mount from a 1985/86 5.0L EFI truck and maybe enough of the through the dash harness you can pull it out of the rubber and put your wiring through it. I did Darth the way I did for several reasons, the existing dash was full of cracks, I was originally going to use the 1990 dash, but when I found the later dash, I liked that style even better and once I went to the 1995/6 design I had to adapt the parking brake and column support which made room for the EEC. The 1990 is half into the left airbox and unless it was put there the 1990 parking brake wouldn't fit. I didn't want to run the harness like the 5.0L and have it close to the EGR tube, so that ruled out putting it there.

Probably would do it, what size is the wire from the battery to the PDC on BB? I would use that as an idea, but it might be overkill. You are still limited by the inside the cab wiring components, like the ignition switch. The 1996 uses two 12ga fuse links from the battery into the #37 yellow wire to the PDC. There is another 12ga for the alternator. The ignition switch on the 1996 has two 50 amp fuses and one 20 amp fuse feeding it. The 1985 has everything through the ignition switch on that one fusible link so #6 might be overkill, but better than having something melt underhood.

The problem with taking the shunt out is twofold, (a) the printed circuit on the cluster will not take the current output of the 3G even a 95 amp, it is designed to handle a very small differential between the alternator/battery and the load. (b) the ammeter is also only designed to handle the small differential and without the shunt it will be a moot point what burns up first, the wires to the dash, the plug(s) on the cluster, the printed circuit or the ammeter itself. Gary, look at your Chrysler electrical, they used a real ammeter, but due to the way it is hooked up it has some interesting behavior. It is great if you understand it shows not into or out of the battery but alternator output.

First, Ford engine computers of that era are not weatherproof, they are mounted inside the body either with an inside plug or just the connector sticking through the firewall. The 1985/86 EFI computer is mounted on the inside of the cab to the right of the steering column near the firewall. Page 65 in the 1986 EVTM shows roughly where it sits. There is (or should be) an oval rubber plug in the firewall near the back of the left valve cover, that is where the harness went through on the 1985/86 EFI trucks, 1987 up it resides in the area of the left airbox. If you have room between the parking brake pedal and the inner cowl, you can get the EEC rack from a later truck and put it there, this also puts the TFI module close to it where it was moved to away from engine heat. Here are some pictures of what I did on Darth: First, inside the cab, EEC, front harness plug and rear harness plug holes in a back plate from a Kenmore washing machine. Second, the area adjacent so you can also see how I did the steering column. Third, front side, the hex heads are self tapping screws I installed with my DeWalt cordless drill/driver. Note the two small "clips" flanking the EEC opening. Those keep the "rack" in place when the cover is removed. Fourth a view looking down at the two harness plugs and the empty EEC rack.

Ok, on the large pin connectors, 7th row down you have one of the Crown Vic 4 & 8 pin ones on the left side and a 1/4" 4 flat pins on the right.. I also note that you didn't differentiate between weatherproof (with seals) and non-weatherproof. On the 3rd tab (mixed pin connectors) you have a few of the weatherproof .060 connectors, the 1/4" pair again pictures look good, once you click on them they pop out for a good look. BTW, if you want to make a removable front harness on BB, I will send you one or all of those 40 pin Lincoln Continental square ones. Bill On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 4:42 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <redacted_email_address> wrote:

Gary, I have a complete 1995 front harness that I used when I first did the EFI conversion, it is wired for a MAP sensor, but has the PDC with all the correct relays in it. However, since you do not have the factory location for the EEC in the left kick panel area, you might want to see if you can use the 1985/86 EFI 5.0L location and the EEC power relay mounts next to it. The issue is, those relay sockets were specific to the Ford proprietary relays, I would recommend using the Bosch relays, but I do have a pair of EEC and Fuel Pump sockets from a 1991 harness if you want them, no relays, they were toast. You will still have to get an EEC-V 104 pin plug to replace the 60 pin EEC-IV one on the harness. I don't think the O2 sensor portion is there, I had the O2 sensor wires in the transmission harness for that one as that was how Ford ran them (they are still there, just with blanking plugs where the O2 sensor and speed sensor used to go.

Ok, here are 3 pictures of my PDC labeled, unfortunately due to the size of the pictures the labels are hard to read in some areas. First is all the fuses down the front side, second is the fuses down the center, third is the relays. You will notice some open slots in the fuses and one open relay location. The connectors can be removed from a damaged PDC (doesn't have to be a truck one and could even be from a non-Ford product). Fuses are numbered in the owner's manual as follows, front row fender in, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Center row, fender in 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Relays are numbered same way, fender in, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There is no fuse in slot 8 on a gas engine, none in slot 2 unless it is an ambulance with 200 amp alternator or has fog lights. Slot 11 is empty, along with 14, either or both could be added if needed. If the donor truck did not have a trailer tow package then fuse slots 6, 7, 18 & 21 will not be used (and will not have either or both connectors) and relay 4 will not be there.

Ok, here are 3 pictures of my PDC labeled, unfortunately due to the size of the pictures the labels are hard to read in some areas. First is all the fuses down the front side, second is the fuses down the center, third is the relays. You will notice some open slots in the fuses and one open relay location. The connectors can be removed from a damaged PDC (doesn't have to be a truck one and could even be from a non-Ford product). Fuses are numbered in the owner's manual as follows, front row fender in, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Center row, fender in 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Relays are numbered same way, fender in, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There is no fuse in slot 8 on a gas engine, none in slot 2 unless it is an ambulance with 200 amp alternator or has fog lights. Slot 11 is empty, along with 14, either or both could be added if needed. If the donor truck did not have a trailer tow package then fuse slots 6, 7, 18 & 21 will not be used (and will not have either or both connectors) and relay 4 will not be there.

Gary, the 1988-91 trucks had the EEC and Fuel pump relays on the back of the air cleaner mount, the 1996 PDC I have has the relays mounted on the back side of it. Note relay box under the cruise control motor housing. Green fuse was pulled to do a "hard reset" on the EEC after flashing it in place.

I substituted a Bronco relay box in place of the trailer relay box giving me 4 relays instead of just 2. I went into the underhood fuse box (PDC) and cut the wires feeding the two trailer signal light relays (fuses 6 and 7) and ran them out to a small 4 pin male/female plug set. From there the wires were run to pin 85 or 86 of a pair of Bosch relays, the other side 86 or 85 was connected to ground. Pin 30 of these was connected to the existing battery feed for the factory 2 relays and pin 87 was connected back through the plug to the PDC and then to fuses 6 and 7 to go to the trailer plug in the back bumper. I will try to get some pictures of the box I used and how to get the terminals out of it or insert new ones in it. I transferred the original trailer relay wiring into the Bronco relay box.

Gentlemen, to be clear, I did not order through Lizzard Skin rather another outfit I've made several thousand dollars worth of purchases through for my Mustang. I've never had issue with them, though I have read some things from others. Ultimately, I could not disprove what they were saying but I do think someone entered some bad information on their end of the computer. Of course, it had changed when I went back to review it. I'll survive the $30 return fees but it did irritate me. We'll see how the Kilmat goes. Much cheaper. The Lizzard Skin was $400. Kilmat, less than $100. Thanks for the support, fellas! When I had the interior out of Darth, first I found that I had a number of holes in the front footwell areas so those needed repairing. A co-worker (fellow lab rat) at NNS was building a retirement home in Charlotte County VA and had a bunch of left over thermal barrier. Since the biggest issue with the 460 is the amount of exhaust heat that penetrates past the factory heat shields I figured it couldn't hurt. I cut and laid sections in both front footwells, but on the passenger side, I ran a roughly 18" wide strip from the bottom of the toe board all the way back to just under the front of the rear seat. This was on top of the existing insulation Ford had there. I ran a strip across the rear foot area also. As far as noise reduction, two things (a) replaced the door weather strip with the ones off the 1996 wrecked crew cab at Pete's (b) used the front door panels and rear doors from the same truck. The later door panels have a 3/8" thick sound deadening pad on them. End result, at highway speeds Darth is pretty quiet inside. If I open the front windows coming through one of the tunnels, the exhaust has a nice deep sound reflacting off the walls.

I saw one the other day where they were light-up. I did find this inside the left front fender on my convertible, and yes, it would have been a 10mm as that is the bolt head size.

Same here I found that very interesting as well. I just havent been able to locate those seats without purchasing a whole second box. But with the modular design like that, it means I can pull all the fuses and relays out and position them with the relays on one side making a square and put the fuses up at the top or rearrange them in any way. It also allows me to give up some fuse space in exchange for more relay space. Which I wont need much fuse space as ill be using the same fuse for many of the relays. Like my low beam/high beam relays two separate relays but they will both be powered by the same 15A fuse which cuts down on wiring and saves me a fuse slot. I wish there was a way I could cut down my headlight relay from two to just one for high/low but I cant come up with a way of doing it and having my headlight switch control it without using another relay to kill the low beam all time hot power which puts me back to dedicated relays for high and low. Im currently looking at ways on my diagram I drew up on how I could cut down my A/C fuses from two to one. Currently I have a AC clutch fuse which is a battery hot fused circuit directly to my AC shut down relay and then out from 87a pin to my clutch itself. But I have another fuse for my AC cutout that goes from a fuse to my AC shut down relay for pin 86 so the sniper can ground pin 85 breaking the 30-87a circuit shutting the clutch down. Im thinking I might be able to jumper it off the clutch relay to go to the shut down relay for power or I could use my dealer AC switch wire at the clutch which is jumpered from my A/C clutch relay and my A/C kick relay and jumper it to my A/C shut down relay since they are all on the trigger circuit it shouldnt draw more amps through the A/C switch than the compressor clutch itself was. But I havent decided on if I want to do that or stick with a dedicated battery hot fused circuit for my AC shut down relay. Rusty, just a little FYI, my Chrysler, using the 1990 wiring harness, has a low and a high beam relay, then separate fuses for each low or high beam circuit, that way a short will kill one portion only. This is the way a lot of Mercedes-Benz and Japanese imports are done. Since you are doing such a thorough upgrade, might be an idea and the present system, if I remember from Darth the headlight wires for the right side run across the inside of the cab then out to the headlights under the HVAC case.