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Stay battened down. I hear there's potential for 2"+ hail out your way. Have you considered looking at Copart, or any of the big auctions? Maybe Brandon has a line on someone who frequents the salvage auctions near you?

I might go no panhard if I was into rock crawling but I've heard too many stories of death wobble and I like the idea of having the front axle attached by more than just the springs in a road driven vehicle. Ford didn't put it on to piss away profit margin, did they?

When Billy suggests using the 250 springs you already have, all my faith in him goes up the chimney like smoke. And his buddy with the D60? To me @ $1400 it is already gone through, seals and any questionable bearings are replaced. $500 on top of that? I want some of what he's smoking. Just my 2c, but I would exit stage left - in a hurry

Flowkooler lists it as a RobertShaw 333-180. https://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-180-thermostat IDK anything about Tim's exclusivity in production.

I think it's opposite, because they didn't just "add a leaf spring". They also deleted the radius arm, which is why the TTB's motion was so wonky to begin with. With radius arms, the hinge lines are diagonal (from the axle pivot through the RA bushing, but NOT along either's axis); with leaf packs, the hinge lines are parallel to the truck's axis (straight through the axle pivot bolt). So with leaves, there's almost no caster change through the wheel's travel; with radius arms, the caster, camber, toe, track width, and even WHEELBASE changes through the travel. You're not wrong about the wonky steering geometry changes with a coil sprung TTB. But overall the changes don't tend to be significant, at least in terms of how they work in a street-driven truck (with minimal wheel motion) or in a desert racer (with lots of wheel motion, but driven on relatively forgiving surfaces as far as steering geometry is concerned. But with the leaf-sprung TTB, the rear half of the leaf spring acts essentially like a radius arm, forcing the outer end of the axle to move fore-and-aft as it moves up-and-down. And with the essentially flat spring at ride height, that "radius arm" actually gets shorter as the wheel moves up or down, so it pulls the axle back even more than a radius arm would. So if anything, even just the rear half of the leaf spring is worse than a radius arm. By even worse than that, the leaf spring also has a front half. As the axle moves up-and-down the axle swinging around its pivot makes the spring pad move right-to-left. The rear end of the spring is fixed to the frame so the front end of the spring tries to move right-to-left twice as much as the spring pad. But the front end of the spring is also tied to the frame through the shackle. That's why the leaf spring TTB is fighting itself, and why I believe it inherently can't give good wheel travel. Gary already has an unlittered thread going with his thoughts and plans for what to do and how to do it.

Gary, Do you know anybody that goes to insurance auctions? Does anyone in your church know anyone? Usually vehicles that will be up for auction are listed. So you could give them a model and year range and a bid cap, see what they turn up.

I think it's opposite, because they didn't just "add a leaf spring". They also deleted the radius arm, which is why the TTB's motion was so wonky to begin with. With radius arms, the hinge lines are diagonal (from the axle pivot through the RA bushing, but NOT along either's axis); with leaf packs, the hinge lines are parallel to the truck's axis (straight through the axle pivot bolt). So with leaves, there's almost no caster change through the wheel's travel; with radius arms, the caster, camber, toe, track width, and even WHEELBASE changes through the travel. With the inverted leaf the wheel base change is negative. Camber change is limited because of the lack of travel to the bump stop. As is caster. Because the rear of the spring is the pivot while the shackle up front allows the spring to retract. (negative arch springs) But those spring and pivot bushings take a real beating due to the twisting motion in both planes. Where as the solid axle suspension of the 350 just acts on the bushings normal to their axis.

My bad. Summit has the 333-180- "in stock, ships today" It just popped up when I searched for 333-195 The Flowcooler page says 333 though.

The suffix DOES mean the opening temp. There are 333-160 -180 & -195 made. This page at flowcooler offers those options. https://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-160-thermostat-and-brass-bypass-1

The Robert Shaw 333-160 is showing as in stock at Summit Racing. Pretty sure this is the same as Tim's. Although I do see mention of a brass restrictor plate on his site

So now it is a question of how I acquire the parts - piecemeal or by getting an F350 and disassembling it. We shall see. One thing I see Brad doesn't have on his shopping list is dampers/shock absorbers. I'd think 2-4" of lift would have them topping out constantly. Depending on the spring chosen stock 250 shocks might be in tension most of the time. Keep an eye on the brake hoses as well.

You make a good point. I could replace the cross member, rebuild the engine, and even install it and wire it up if that won't cause problems with installing a different front axle. Meanwhile looking for an F350 for the axle, suspension, and for that matter t-case. (I think I have the right front driveshaft from the F350 that the ZF5 came from.) I've not made any decisions about the front axle, and really don't need to make any for quite some time as there's plenty of work to be done. But I'm just trying to work through the options and the costs thereof. So, perhaps waiting to see what comes from the searches I've kicked off would be the best approach. Perhaps they'll turn up the F350 and I'll have everything needed. However, even then I'll need to decide on the RSK, which is $450, and the locker, which is $1200. Again, thanks for the help thinking through this. I hadn't considered the cost of a front locker, or the fact that Big Blue already has one. Maybe I've put it out of my mind because of my personal experience with them? But that also means you would recoup some of that 2k by selling the D44 forward. Not much, as it isn't very desirable, but something more than scrap.

And this is what happens when I get distracted while in a reply window. I still don't see $2k in a D60 and double cardan shaft if you intend to do everything else. Just a suggestion to look to Travers Tool or Enco if you needed the marking paste, and an alternative.

I've only ever heard one person say that the F-250s TTB can be made into a good riding suspension. I don't say that to discourage you, but if you want good info on how to make Big Blue ride well, that one person might be the one to talk to. (For what it's worth, as I've said here before, I really don't think my '97 F-250 rides that bad. But I wouldn't be one to argue that it has a particularly good ride.) Anyway, I think the guy I'm thinking of goes by the screen name '89F2urd on FTE. I'f I'm remembering the correct person, he's argued several times that a lifted F-250, still on leaf springs, can have a good ride if done well. You might want to see if you can find out what he has to say about it. edit to add: I did a quick search on FTE for posts with TTB in them by '89F2urd. That's definitely the guy I was thinking of. All I found in my quick scan was that he does not recommend a shackle reversal with TTB, and that he recommends about a 2" - 3" lift. That certainly isn't enough info to answer your questions, but it's a start. In looking at the Tuff Country drop pivots needed for a 250 RSK I noticed that the 1997 250's are unique enough that they have their own part number. Maybe that explains some of the better ride you have? Gary, Again I'm going to say that while a 250 RSK might get the axle off the bump stops and put the spring motion in the right direction you're still not eliminating the pivot bushing degradation, troublesome need to pull the front end apart to install different caster/camber bushings, and you still are going to need a drop pitman arm in addition to those TC drop pivots which are around $160. Yes, scope creep has exponentially increased the cost. My initial suggestion was to buy a wrecked F-350 4x4 for $5-600 and have ALL the parts for Big Blue except the RSK itself. Then scrap the 350 hulk and the 250 front end for $350 or whatever the going rate. I have time but no $ and realize that your dynamic is quite different. I also realize that maybe you've had enough of dad's truck for now and want to shift gears and work on Big Blue. You could still buy the $50 cross member and set about wiring up the 460 while looking for a dead 350. You could still get the SD springs and weld in the RSK and do the LoPro mounts. In the end you could still use the TTB if you don't find a 3.54 D60 and front driveshaft. But that's up to you

Does the OX need professional installation? For most people I'd answer this "If you need to ask, then you probably shouldn't do it yourself". But Gary, you aren't most people. You just need to ask. I get that! But seriously, it's not a job for the faint-of-heart, or the impatient. I installed an OX in the front Dana 44 of my Bronco last year. Here's a link to my project thread on another forum (the OX install starts at post #96). As I understand the Dana 60 goes about the same as a 44, except that the parts are bigger and heavier. "They say" you need a case spreader to pull the case open so the diff will drop in and out. If you have a diff spreader (and they can be made pretty easily if you're of a mind to) I'd certainly use it. But you can pry the diff out and tap it in with a mallet too. You need some slightly specialized tools (a magnetic base dial indicator and a torque wrench that reads in lb-in), as well as a way for the lb-in torque wrench to turn the pinion. And you need gear marking compound (I guess "Prussian Blue" used to be the go-to, but all I've ever seen in pictures is the yellow grease I used, which was hard to find). You need a way to press the bearings on (a hydraulic press makes it much easier). And while "they say" that set-up bearings make it possible to do without pulling and reinstalling bearings, I found that not to be true, so a bearing puller is probably needed. Nothing about installing a diff is rocket science, but it is putzy work, trying to get the shims in the right places to get everything right. Check out my thread (linked above) to see what I went through. And I wasn't changing the gearing, so I just left the pinion gear where it was. If you are changing gears when you install the diff you'll need to get the pinion depth adjusted too. That will be more of the same as getting the carrier shims correct. So should you do it yourself? Gary, for you I would NOT suggest that if the goal is to save money. Yes, doing it yourself will save money, but I think you are well enough off that you won't value the several hundred bucks enough to be worth the hassle. On the other hand, if you just want to do it because you like working on your truck, then go for it. I'm sure you are up to it, as long as you are committed to it. If you are doing it yourself, definitely do it out of the vehicle. It will be a lot easier to get in a comfortable position to work on it. If you are taking it in, as Shaun said, it's mostly a matter of whether you want to take the truck or just the axle to the shop. The cost likely won't be significantly different either way. I'll take this question to mean "Should I install a front locker for my use?" I'd answer that yes, you should, but you don't really need to. I've done almost all of my fourwheeling with a rear automatic locker and an open front, and that works out pretty well (your rear TrueTrac won't be quite as effective, but will still do pretty well paired with an open front). But after putting the OX in the front of my Bronco I've learned first-hand how beneficial it really is. When you stick a front tire against a rock that will test your articulation (probably more of an issue with my Bronco that your F-250 if you can believe that), the front locker lets the tire just walk over rather than needing to get the right combination of line and momentum with the open diff (and with a TrueTracs a rear locker that difference would be a little more important). You have a winch, which will almost always be a good tool to get you past a spot where you might need a front locker. With an open front you'll probably be able to go anywhere you want to / should go. But if you have the locker you won't need to "pull rope" as often and it'll be easier. The 'yellow paste' is used by machinists and machine rebuilders to mark ways and surfaces for scraping. Those iridecent looking planes create space for lubrication while keeping incredibly tight tolerances. I've only used zinc oxide. The white paste you used to see on the lifeguard's nose. It works for me and is available everywhere for cheap.

And apparently red is DuraSpark I. Sorry for the bad information.

I looked it up. It's the French word for chestnut. Also: . DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS FOR MAROON maroon1/ (məˈruːn) / verb (tr) to leave ashore and abandon, esp on an island to isolate without resources noun a descendant of a group of runaway slaves living in the remote areas of the Caribbean or Guyana. noun a dark red to purplish-red colour

Maroon is a reddish/purplish brown. Pantone and even Crayola used this as a color. Maroon *is* brown in many languages. TMI: It goes back to days when African slaves were abandoned on islands in the Caribbean and they bred with indigenous Tiano people. The mixed race offspring were known as Marron's, and led to a person 1/8 black being an Octaroon Hence Marroned as a verb meaning stuck on an island. Maybe the ones I've seen were just discolored from years of exposure. I've seen green ignition modules in '70's cars but that was long ago. Can't recall the model. Maybe I dreamed it up? But the DSII distributor plug *is* a four lead connector, just not pinned in the last position. Orange, Purple, Black are correct for DSII and I'm glad Ford kept with convention on its harnesses.

Ned, What color is the strain relief where the wires enter your ignition module? Red, yellow, green, maroon? The other two plugs, distributor and power, look completely normal for DSII -with the exception of the green distributor wire-and perhaps it is as simple as plug & play since you are not going to be using any wires going to the YF carb on the 300-6 now in the truck. Depending on your trucks DSO (maybe Denver?) it's likely altitude compensating and that cylinder may be a barometric sensor. I've never encountered one here in the Northeast.

I think the 250 hanger will work with the SORD RSK. At least that's the impression I got from their instructions. As for the pitman arm, I see no mention of needing a 350 drop arm with their regular 350 RSK. (and doing a straight across SAS essentially gives you a stock 350 front end) But IDK what Superduty springs might add to that.

That's great news. AFAIK all the spring brackets and shackles come in the kit. You would use the old rear spring mounts for the reversed shackles by drilling them out, for regular 350 springs. Since you want the Superduty springs you'll get the kit with SORD's LoPro rear brackets. I think you have all the bases covered.

Sorry. I didn't realize that you already had a line on a cross member. you gotta fly like a eagle to be free

I thought the right thing, and the purpose of this fishing expedition, was to replace Big Blue's cross member? Like I said, I'd go upstate looking for an F-350 but it's way out of your range and shipping would be prohibitive.

Aaand.... Here we go, the next eight pages. I'm glad if I could impart some of my personal experiences. But do note that I never did the SAS & RSK on my truck. If that F-450 had had other hubs and 9k springs, instead of 10 lug dually hubs you probably would have followed me thru it right here on the forum. So, I'll defer to Jonathan and Shaun as the local experts.

F-350's are usually 9-10k gvw. I'm sure a wrecker has stiff springs. I guess I can't be much help from up here (back in Stamford CT) Even a truck that burned would probably be ok for your purpose. Though it might effect spring temper.