The Return of Rusty

If that's what you want.

I'd think doing chores around the homestead I'd want it a little lazy, if anything.


Angelo just opened a thread http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/#nabble-td61339 but he is on the far side of what you need your truck for.

Back at FTE the go to tranny guy was Mark Kovalsky.
He is a second generation Ford transmission engineer with experience at Roush and developing the E4OD.

If you're a member over there you can always PM him.
He's responsive.

Jim - It was Rusty's engine in Dad's truck with now Big Blue's ZF5 behind it.  (I've done a bit of mixing and matching.  )  I know that engine is strong, but that tranny has a few miles on it.

Clay - A shift kit wouldn't hurt, but I'd have them check the clutches as well.

Maybe we need to recruit Mark?  Sure would be nice to have that expertise.

But Bill/85lebaront2 knows his way around transmissions.  We could ping him if you want, Clay.

Always good to have someone who REALLY knows their field!  

I can only speak from (what little) personal experience I have.
I said the other day 'I'm only a shade tree mechanic' and I stand by that.

I never made a living at it, and hardly went to school for it.
Most of what I know comes from watching others and making mistakes on my own.

I used to like racing, which led to experimentation... and often failure. (Wall of Shame)
I fix things out of necessity.
But I have a keen perception of how things fit -and work- together.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

What are your intentions for Rusty?

If you just want to get familiar with him and make a decision on what needs MOAR, then I'd think you would replace the pump (converter if it needs it) and have your way with him for a bit.

At least that's what I would do.

What’s MOAR?

It's a very old meme(?) from the stone age of the internet.
Kind of like spelling porn as 'pr0n' or 'teh' instead of the.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moar
Poking fun at keyboard warriors.

Ok, thanks. Did a search but didn’t see that explanation!

Ok guys wow, so I just got off the phone with the transmission shop and they're kind of at a loss for words. They say there is no apparent reason why Rusty should be breaking flexplates. All the clearances, and end play run-outs are within spec. They also say there's no problems with the transmission or the engine, in fact he said everything appeared to be in great condition. He did recommend replacing the converter just to be safe and mentioned that due to the gearing in the truck the converter may possibly be ballooning and coming into contact with the flexplate causing the breaks when the truck is operated at high rpms, e.g. 65 to 70mph. I also asked about the harmonic balancer on the front and he mentioned it did have rubber protruding from the middle. So I told him to replace the converter and balancer asking with the flexplate of course. The transmission work is done and he says the test drive went well but decided to adjust the timing slightly and says it now runs much better than when it came in. So now I'll wait for the damper to be replaced and hope to the good Lord Rusty is fixed.

Well that sucks you didn't really get an answer as to why. Guess we'll just have to see what happens.

Wow!  Anti-climactic.  And we wanted to know.  

But, I don't understand the "when the truck is operated at high rpms, e.g. 65 to 70mph".  If I remember correctly, and our calculator backs me up, it'll be spinning right at 3000 RPM at 70 MPH.  Is that considered "high rpms"?

My money is on cheap chinese, japanese, dirtyknees flexplates.

That's confusing to me too Gary. However, both failures have come at highway speed. I couldn't tell you what exact rpm was during my drive as the tach wasn't working but the engine didn't seem to be laboring or at an awkward rpm.

Ray,
I can tell you the new one they just installed is a Pioneer brand flexplate.

Clay, I looked up pioneer flexplates. Nothing on their website about metalurgy or source of steel in their flexplates. So....I sent them an email asking about it. I'll post their response as soon as I get it.

Good luck on Rusty.

Thanks for reaching out to them Ray. I looked at their website yesterday also. Pioneer at least is an American company with a pretty long history of producing parts here in the states.

ClayJ wrote

Ok guys wow, so I just got off the phone with the transmission shop and they're kind of at a loss for words. They say there is no apparent reason why Rusty should be breaking flexplates. All the clearances, and end play run-outs are within spec. They also say there's no problems with the transmission or the engine, in fact he said everything appeared to be in great condition. He did recommend replacing the converter just to be safe and mentioned that due to the gearing in the truck the converter may possibly be ballooning and coming into contact with the flexplate causing the breaks when the truck is operated at high rpms, e.g. 65 to 70mph. I also asked about the harmonic balancer on the front and he mentioned it did have rubber protruding from the middle. So I told him to replace the converter and balancer asking with the flexplate of course. The transmission work is done and he says the test drive went well but decided to adjust the timing slightly and says it now runs much better than when it came in. So now I'll wait for the damper to be replaced and hope to the good Lord Rusty is fixed.

So they did run out of the flex plate and the converter and came up good.
I did not see or hear anything on the locating dowels on the motor to bell housing.
If missing or loose in the bell or motor the center line of the crank & transmission could be off and this will cause the flex to crack.

Also thinking is this housing new to the truck? along the same lines of the dowels if the housing was machined off center it could cause flex plate issues.
I know when running a blow proof bell housing you need to check that the center hole the trany centers on is centered to the crank center line and use off set dowel pins to re-center it.

Now I would think a transmission shop would have checked all this but could be one of them things that you don't check for everyday and over looked it this time?

Was the same converter reused with each broken flex plate?
If so yes I would change it just because but if it did balloon I have not known then to go back to normal size. I also have not seen one balloon at 3000 RPM but also have not been around them all that much.
It is the smaller dia. high stall racing converters they put the anti-balloon plates on that run the higher RPM.
Dave ----

Dave,

Yes the dowel pins are installed and were checked. The bell housing has not been changed, its the same one Gary swapped in years ago. Yes the torque converter was a common factor during both flex plate failures. As of yesterday there is a brand new flexplate and torque converter installed. New harmonic balancer being installed this morning. Other than that both the transmission shop and the classic shop Rusty has been to say he's good to go. I'll be picking him up this afternoon and making the 25 mile trip home at highway speeds.

ClayJ wrote

Dave,

Yes the dowel pins are installed and were checked. The bell housing has not been changed, its the same one Gary swapped in years ago. Yes the torque converter was a common factor during both flex plate failures. As of yesterday there is a brand new flexplate and torque converter installed. New harmonic balancer being installed this morning. Other than that both the transmission shop and the classic shop Rusty has been to say he's good to go. I'll be picking him up this afternoon and making the 25 mile trip home at highway speeds.

Good to hear just throwing things out there that may bring up a "Oh damn I should check that".
Good luck
Dave ----

I appreciate any and all help. Rusty is a great truck and I don't want him to go out like this. I'm really thinking that replacing the converter along with an American made flexplate will seal the deal. Ray, I'm still waiting to hear back who made the other 2 that failed.

I don't think it really matters who made the first one.  The way it was installed with a spacer probably put a bending force right at the transition from flat to the curve, which focused all of the force right there.  It was a given it would fail, and that it would fail there.

But, that doesn't explain why the second one failed.  That's the one that bothers me.  Install the wrong part and try to get by with a shim is one thing.  But if the second one was the right part, then why did it fail?

Do we know for sure the 2nd was the right part?  Beside what the parts store said?