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85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

The problem with the left turn indicator light was a bad factory splice where three wires and the dash feed were all spliced, the dash feed was broken inside the taped area. It is now fixed.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Yippee! Another layer down on the onion.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

I am beginning to think the electrical system has the ghost of Joe Lucas in it. I have a key on, low current leak to the brake light circuit, I thought it might be the speed control circuit as, unlike Ford, it has a dedicated set of contacts in the brake light switch. Pulling the fuse made no difference. I say low current because it is showing 8.08 volts at the stop and turn light feeds and the third brake light. This is with LEDs in all 5 locations. Changing one of the tail light bulbs back to an incandescent bulb kills the other 4 lights.

It is definitely coming through the brake light circuit, unplugging the switch kills it.

In any event here are some more pictures:

Gary, the opening under the radio is where I need to come up with a panel for a power point, hazard flasher switch, panel dimmer and courtesy light switch and the rear window defroster switch.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

old55pete

Re: T2K-CAR

Bill...........DO you have an electric trailer brake controller in that car? The reason I ask is that when I build custom truck beds and put all LED lights in them. I will have to change out the older brake controller to a new one because the older ones create a feed back loop and keep the LEDs on ane have around a 6 or 7 volt draw. The first time it took me several days to figure it out.

If you dont have one, sorry I wasted your time?

Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC

grumpin

Re: T2K-CAR

old55pete wrote

Bill...........DO you have an electric trailer brake controller in that car? The reason I ask is that when I build custom truck beds and put all LED lights in them. I will have to change out the older brake controller to a new one because the older ones create a feed back loop and keep the LEDs on ane have around a 6 or 7 volt draw. The first time it took me several days to figure it out.

If you dont have one, sorry I wasted your time?

From my perspective that’s not wasted time, very good info for the future! Thanks.

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

In reply to this post by old55pete

Yes, my experience is that brake controllers cause problems with LED's. But in my case it was a new brake controller.

Bill - What kind of panel do you have in mind? What all functions do you need on it? Just "power point, hazard flasher switch, panel dimmer and courtesy light switch and the rear window defroster switch"?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by old55pete

No brake controller, this one isn't going to be towing anything it is sort of a street rod. a 200 hp 135 ci 4 cyl turbocharged engine and automatic (5 speeds in the K convertibles were very rare due to the reinforcement structure).

FWIW, unplugging the brake switch killed the lights, but removing the speed control fuse didn't. I swear Joe Lucas is hiding in the wiring somewhere.
I'm just hoping I won't need to replace this:

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Yes, just those 4 items (dimmer and courtesy light control is one unit). I will get you pictures and measurements along with the depth to the inner structure (there was a cupholder there originally).

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

grumpin

Re: T2K-CAR

Wow! Replacement smoke, pretty rare in my parts!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Bill - What do you mean by "power point"? I think I'm planning on installing a USB charger in place of the cigar lighter, and have my eye on this one from Blue Seas. There are cheaper ones, but the vast majority of them have a volt meter included, and since our cigar lighters are hot all the time I don't want the current draw of one with a volt meter.

There are certainly less expensive units on the market. But some of them raise serious doubts, like this Ginsco Quick Charge 3.0 Dual USB Charger, which has some dubious claims or, at best, poor translations in its advert.

First, iPhones certainly DO allow fast charging. Second, "under the premise of firm fixation"? And "blue LED"? That is green on my screen. "Let this USB charger be with you on the road safety"? "The usb socket will be controlled by the car power manager, stop charge automatically when your device is fully charged"?

I think I'll pay for a Blue Seas one as at least their descriptions make sense. And, it appears they'll be around as they show to have been winning awards since 2005.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Gary, I am just looking for a lighter type socket, possibly with a cover that I can plug what I need into (inverter, phone, or whatever I might need. Once I work up the center console I will probably, even though neither of us smoke, have an ash tray and lighter there.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Bill - That's probably a good idea. That way you can plug lots of things in, including a USB charger.

I've looked a bit at what's available and haven't found what I'd like to find - a replacement for our cigar lighter sockets which don't always connect well to everything. So if you find something please let me know.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

I have several later Chrysler ones that seem pretty solid, complete with snap on connectors. On the mystery issue with the brake lights, the present brake light switch has an internal high resistance short from a brake switch input to the ECM (which has 12V with the key on, brake on) it is grounded with brake released. Somewhere inside the switch it is connecting to the brake light wire with 8.6 V and the 5 LEDs only pull it down to 8.08V but a single 1157 bulb will kill it. A spare switch does not have the same issue.

Changing these is not a fun job, it is over the steering column, operated by a tab on the brake pedal. Easiest way is remove the bottom of the dash and drop the column down for better access.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

LED's and their much smaller draw seem to find all sorts of problems in these systems. At least you know what the problem is. Have fun fixing it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Well, at least their much smaller illumination current threshold...

But it's pretty amazing how much parasitic load there is on older vehicles.
The evidence is right there.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Actually, Jim, in this case it is caused by a bad brake switch. These switches have three sets of contacts, using the normal terminology, brake lights are NC, speed control and ECM circuit are NO and by design they are supposed to be completely independent of each other.

Plunger in ECM wire is grounded, speed control is connected and brake lights are off.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Well, it wasn't a bad brake light switch it was the wrong brake light switch. The switches both have 3 sets of contacts, two NO and one NC, the difference is the wiring harness on the switch. On the correct one, the wire from the ECM is grounded with the plunger in, on the one I had in the car, it is connected to the brake lights. Therefore the behavior I was seeing was normal.

The giveaway is the 6 pin plug to the harness, only 5 pins are used and one of them has two wires to it. The two are the brake light feed, pedal released one is connected to the ECM pin 29, pedal depressed, the other one is connected to the constant 12V source.

The correct switch has the second brake light wire, the one that is connected to the ECM with the brake off, changed to a ground wire, probably to tell the ECM the brake is applied and to kill the converter lockup clutch.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Gary, here are some more pictures of the center stack where I want to mount the switches. First are two (left and right side) pictures of the mounting points for the cup holder/storage cubby insert. The mounting face is exactly 2" forward of the angle (angle is the center dash support modified from the original 1989 piece).

Front view of center with the insert installed.

Back side of center with insert installed.

Bottom view of center and insert.

What I am think on doing will be to cut the insert far enough back that the modified Taurus dimmer and the Chrysler heated rear window switch will be at their normal mounting point if I install a flat piece of probably ABS plastic on the cut surface it will put the push buttons and knob at the back face of the faux wood panel where I will have a front panel so just the knob, push buttons, hazard switch and power point are located.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Bill - I was with you until I got to "so just the knob, push buttons, hazard switch and power point are located". Should that be "will need to be located"?

Anyway, yes, I think using an ABS panel would be your best bet. If memory serves the "bumpy" stuff is called "hair cell" for the finish it has. But if the panel has to span the width you may need to put a piece of aluminum angle across it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

I was trying to think of the best way to describe it. The dimmer control and heated rear window switch are designed to be mounted on a panel then have a cover over the mounting areas so only the knob or the two buttons actually protrude from the surface. What it may end up will be a mounting panel for the two large pieces (dimmer and heated window controls) and a thin sheet metal front roughly 5/8" away from the panel and suitably reinforced with a vinyl covering in either black or faux wood that the power point will be mounted to, the hazard switch and other two will be mounted to the inner panel so that the front face of the rear window control, knob of the dimmer control and hazard switch penetrate the outer panel. The heated rear window control has a light (that will only illuminate with the top up) and If I can find a way I will have something for the hazard and dimmer controls, power point may have it's own light when opened.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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