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T2K-CAR

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Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

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Wow! That's a LOT of wires! You have all of them connected?

You are really making progress. When's the projected completion date?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Pretty much, there are still a few that I need to work out, a ground for the heated rear window that opens when the top is down so it can't be accidently activated and a wire from the amplifier (black box under the passenger's seat) that needs to be grounded when the top is down to activate the top down equalizer mode. The group of plugs (two round and two roughly rectangular) are for the instrument cluster, either analog (round plugs) or digital. The audio system is near the center and the wiring to and from the amplifier is done. I need to add one wire for the power deck lid release, the J body cars used a mechanical cable release, the K and E bodies used a power release latch assembly.

Right now I am in the testing and verifying portion as I was having a problem with the mode actuator on the ATC system and need to run the diagnostic tests on it while it is easier to reach. I will need to make a switch panel to mount the dimmer, hazard and heated rear window switches. There is a location under the radio that was used for a storage cubby (open) or cup holders in a pull-out. The latter will not work due to the shifter location.

The hazard system is what I want to use a push on/push off switch on, it needs to switch the power source for the flasher from ignition switched (turn signal) to battery (hazard), ground the pin that activates the flasher and ground the two relay sets for the turn signals in the hazard mode. The relay wires have to be ungrounded at the hazard switch for normal operation. This means a minimum of 12 pins, 4 center, 4 for normal operation and 4 more for hazard operation (not all are in use). Right now I found a 4 pole, single throw rocker switch that will work, but I was trying to find a push button style. If I use the one I did find, since it has some extra pins (18 all together) I may add an LED that will give a visual indication it is on as I am not sure the digital cluster turn signal indicators work with the ignition off.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Is there something like a pin switch that opens when the top is down. If so it could pull in a relay provides ground to the amp when the top is down and ground to the heater when it is up.

But the hazard system seems complex. Glad you think you have it solved.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Believe it or not, a garden tractor/riding mower safety switch will do the job. They are essentially two switches in a plastic housing, one is a NO the other an NC. The NO switch is used to disable the starter if the PTO or clutch is not disengaged, the NC is used to kill the engine if the PTO or clutch is engaged and the operator leaves the seat (other switches are involved). Using the NO portion for the heated window switch latch ground and the NC for the amplifier signal ground it will do what is needed, turn off the heated rear window and change the amplifier equalization. It is a matter of where to locate it so something in the top mechanism will operate it.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

That's cool! I'd never looked to see how the switch on my JD mower works, but that seems to explain it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Today, I finally got the mode actuator for the 1992 Imperial electronic automatic temperature control to function properly and not give me any error messages. After that it was time to reinstall the dash over the new wiring system. Still needs a little massaging on the right end, the defroster duct and wire channel don't want to play well together.

1990 fuse box, each headlight set low and high beam are individually fused.

The 1990 dimmer module that the previously built switch controls.

Modified 1994 Taurus Headlight switch.

Relay box for parking lamps, headlights, turn signals, door locks and horn.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Before our wayward friend says it, I'll say it: Progress is good!

So, with the dash basically sorted, what is next? What is left?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

There are a few small pinholes in the floor that need to be repaired, charge the AC system. After that get the exhaust system installed. Once those are done I have to order the carpet (a molded single piece) so it can go in. Once the carpet is installed, I can finish the lower part of the dash as it bolts to the center reinforcement right in front of the shifter.

Then I have to finish repairing the broken spring tabs on dash top panel, install the two dash speakers and put the top with the sun load sensor on. Seats, door panels need upholstering and once I get the top down from the storage shelf and mounted, it needs replacing as it was on the 1985 from 2003 until it was totaled in 2009.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Those are doable things. You can do it!

Once you seal the floor are you going to put some sound deadening down?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

There are jute pads in each footwell and the carpet is molded on a rubber backing. Besides, sound deadening in a convertible? Most of the noise is from the top anyway, that and around the tops of the windows.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

This post was updated on .

While I had the dash still not fitted fully, and waiting for epoxy and the ABS slurry to set up, I decided it might be a good time to run the line from the vacuum/pressure lines on the engine through the firewall and to where the vacuum/boost gauge and warning lights go in the upper center of the dash. That is now almost complete, I have to get the underhood portion connected to the fitting in the right side penetration. While I was working on this I decided that looking at the fresh air/recirculate actuator might be in order as I had noticed seemed to be a little "jumpy" as far as moving the door to the right position. There is no feedback or internal stop, it runs until it stalls and the processor must sense the current increase and shut it off. The system has a common lead to the three actuators, fresh/recirc, mode and blend. Only the blend has a full feedback sense so after being used for a while the processor "learns" it's position. The mode has a feedback circuit that appears to be two segments connected to the two sides of the motor so the "mid" position which is floor allows the processor to stop it there, face and defrost are the two extremes. What I was seeing was the driven gear for the fresh/recirc was slipping on the hex of the output crankshaft. The gear was cracked when I acquired the system and I had repaired it then (non of the actuators are available) so I had repaired it with some J B Weld. The issue is the gear train is all plastic, 4 stages and the second and 4th are on the same shaft, the 2nd being free and retained with a pressed on circular "non-removable" circular clip. It will loosen with age (system is from a 1992 Imperial) and when it does, the slight taper of the hex will try to push it off further. I super glued the 4th stage gear to the output then after it set, reassembled and crimped the center of the retainer before pushing it down tightly. I lubed the shafts and ran it in both directions with my DC power supply before reinstalling it.

I got the AC and defroster ducts, wiring harness and side window demister ducts to finally play well together so the dash is installed and I am putting the lower portions in to check fit and figure out where my panel dimmer, hazard switch and rear window defroster switch will go and see what kind of panel I will need to come up with for them. There is a section under the radio that had a pull out drink holder on the 1989 car, due to the shifter location it isn't usable for that so it will become the switch panel.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Progress is good! 👍

You seem to be making a lot of progress with the Kompressor Kar, Bill.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Man, that was a mouthful! A lot of work in that writeup. Well done!

But it makes you wonder what the engineers were smoking when they came up with some of those systems. Gears that loosen? Non-removable retainers?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

It is called Detroit engineering, pioneered by Government Motors. Why spend $0.10 when you can do it for $0.05 or less. Plastic is cheap and somewhat self lubricating and is also quiet (no gear whine). The retainer was designed so it could be done with an automated assembly jig and the rest of the assembly is held in place when the housing is snapped together. Two shafts, 4 gears and a 12V DC motor in a piece not much bigger than a box of kitchen matches. Gary, I dare say Blue has a dashboard full of those little beasts on the HVAC system.

You also have to remember, the K-cars were never intended to last this long, even the Imperial that the EATC system came from is still a K-car derived platform which is why it fits perfectly, even the control head is the same dimensions as the manual, even heater only control.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Ok, a bit more progress, got the underhood portion of the vacuum/pressure gauge connected and installed it, the trip computer and HVAC control head. I had to redo the wiring on the warning light portion of the gauge unit. Here is a picture with the engine running. Instrument cluster will be next, I found the electronic dimming wire from the digital plugs wasn't connected.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Ok, Jim, you commented on the wiring hang from the instrument panel area, that was just a temporary prove out item. I have two different, physically interchangeable instrument panels, one is analog, the other digital, both work, but the plugs are completely different and the digital has 4 additional wires for constant 12V, electronic dimming, one more ground and a driver's door switch lead. The analog has one extra that ties to the body computer to provide an audible check gauges warning. What I did was to take some 12 way connectors I found on Amazon and use a male/female pair on the dash wiring and each instrument panel pigtail (22 on the digital and 16 on the analog) but because of the differences I needed 23 pins on the dash side to allow for the different configuration.
Here are the dash side plugs:

Here are the two instrument panels with their pigtails:

Here are the back sides so you can see the different connections:

Here is the digital with it's pigtail:

And the analog with it's pigtail:

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Frank Wyatt

Re: T2K-CAR

Wow! That's a lot of wiring in those systems on that car you had to wrap your brain around. My hat's off to you, Bill.

1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci with a fully rebuilt 1968 240 head Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
Home town Mc Kenzie, TN

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Yes, well done!

But, lets go back a bit. I missed the previous post, and in it you said "with the engine running". Yippee!

Then this cool wiring design where you can plug in either set of gauges just by using your jumper scheme. I really like that!

You are going to be driving this thing soon!

And, by the way, I think I'm the guy that commented on how many wires were hanging down.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Well, I have run into a few issues on the wiring, some of which is probably due to using 1989 gauge clusters on the 1990 wiring. Chrysler made a major change in 1990, the analog clusters are primarily different in the shape and connections. The 1989 cluster has two 11 pin round plugs of which 16 are used, one of these is an air bag monitor which is not on a 1986 car. The 1990 cluster has two rectangular 14 pin connectors of which 19 are used. One of the additions in 1990 is a "check gauge" lamp that seems to be connected to the oil pressure light. This is not used on the digital cluster.

Starting in 1990 Chrysler added a body computer to many of their vehicles and use the communication bus to talk between the various modules, the SBEC (engine computer) trip computer and digital gauge cluster. The 1989 digital cluster does not have the connections for this bus.

What I am running into is two part, the adapter harness for the analog cluster, will when plugged in, cause the BCM to immediately start chiming as soon as the harness is plugged in, even without the cluster attached (the BCM does have a constant 12V power source as it controls the illuminated entry lighting). I am going to disconnect the "check gauge" wire and see if that eliminates the problem there (the analog 1990 cluster has two oil light wires, a gray from the switch and a dark green/yellow going to the BCM in addition to the gray wire also going to the BCM).

The other interesting problem is the left turn signal indicator (tan wire) is not getting power in L turn. The system on the 1990 wiring is interesting to say the least. Chrysler went to a new switch system in 1990 on the Lebaron Coupe and convertible along with the Dodge Daytona, there is a large bank of relays as the switches are PC board style and will not handle the power draw of the headlights or multiple smaller lights, so there is a low beam, high beam and park lamp relays, also 4 turn signal relays, 2 for the rear and 2 for the front. The rear ones in the "off" position connect the brake light circuit to the tail lights, in the "on" position connect the tail lights to the flasher circuit, either one side or the other or both at once. The front ones only connect the front signal lights to the flasher system when on, the dash indicators are connected to the front signal circuit of the appropriate side. First step will be to see if my left front signal is working, if not, then a relay swap to see if that corrects it, if the light is working then it becomes an issue in the light green wire from the left front relay to pin 21 in the bulkhead connector and pin 5 in my male adapter connector.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: T2K-CAR

Administrator

Man, that is COMPLEX! I can't even get my head around what you said, much less what the problem is. But it appears that you have a plan, so here's hoping it works.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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