The replacing of a c6 with t19. More than just the swap

I know I had mentioned taking a few days off, but you find free time and the thought of getting it closer to finished is just too tempting...

I hooked up the new clutch hydraulic line to the new clutch master and used slave cylinder.  It took a bit of trial and error to figure out a way to bleed it alone, but I figured it out.  Just as the pedal was starting to feel good the seals blew in the used master.  I decided to go ahead and drive 3 towns over to the closest parts store that had a new one on the shelf.  I got the slave, brake fluid, and the new gear oil I needed to do a fluid change in the transmission.

I figured out a pretty nice (in my opinion) way to remove the retainer on the hydraulic line under the truck.





I removed the punch portion of an automatic center punch and dug through my drops of welding rods and found one about the right length and diameter.  I only had to polish the end up a bit with the belt sander.  Just swapped them out and it is an instant easy small roll pin remover.

Just a few clicks and the roll pin came out.  I got the idea on the way to get the new clutch slave.

I got the u joint changed on the front drive shaft that was bad.  The driveshaft is installed.  I am hoping to install the rear driveshaft after I finish this water break.

I am planning to give it a good once over tomorrow for checking everything out and fix the reverse switch wiring (I just found a broken wire).  Then hopefully a shake down trip around the country block.  

Well,  I got the driveshafts installed and was able to take it for a few laps around the property.

WOW.  The little driving shook the bubbles out of the clutch hydraulics fully. The brakes are something pretty amazing compared to the stock stuff.  The old master/booster were clearly not a good match for the f250 style front and rear brakes.  The bronco has never tried to stop with this much enthusiasm before.  It locks all 4 wheels up dramatically if you so choose.  I think it is going to take a bit of personal adjustment of pedal use.  My wife commented I must have been pretty pleased when I walked in the house this time.  Aparently I had some kind of a big smile...


Once I get the wreck of a tool mess in the cab cleaned up I will try to get some pictures.  

A very pleased person indeed.

Happy 4th of July to all!

Great idea on using the punch! Congrats! Glad you got to drive it.

Happy 4th to you as well!

Yes, I like the punch idea.  But I'm even more thrilled that the brakes work that well.  I'm REALLY looking forward to trying mine.  

Anyway, congrat's!

Congrats on the progress and first lap around the yard. After living with inadequate vacuum brakes the hydroboost system sure does put a goofy grin on your face. I knew it was a good upgrade but feeling that much braking power in your own truck is extremely satisfying. I’m glad you have lift off with the manual conversion, that’s an accomplishment and upgrade in my opinion.

That is a neat idea!
I don't own one of those automatic glass breaker thingies, but I'm going to pick one up the next visit to Horrid Fate.

Congratulations on being driving again!
That's got to be a great feeling 😊

Glad your wife is so understanding about the mistress.  😉

Yes, that center punch idea I am going to remember.  I could see that a person could make up several different punches to fit various roll pin sizes.  

I have driven a hydroboost 1988 F-Superduty previously, but it was a work truck with a heavy bed and tools pretty well always.  If I were to venture a guess I would say it was probably 7500 lbs plus empty.  Last time I rolled the bronco across the scale it weighed 5900 lbs with the few hundred pounds of tools and parts I had in it.  I imagine with the heavy bumpers and winch the bronco might get close to 5400 lbs.  In addition the bronco only has 4 wheels and tires and the F-Superduty has 6, if you consider the inertia in a spinning wheel and tire, I bet an extra pair of them add quite a lot of energy the brakes have to dissipate.  I already can tell it is going to be completely different to drive (more enjoyable).

I did go ahead and use the close ratio idi transmission (high miler) that I had here.  I decided that I would keep the wide ratio transmission in case I find enough money sometime to get one of those overdrives.  The driveshaft was 29 inches roughly.  Probably is enough room to live with 7 inches shorter if I do not fabricate a bigger travel suspension.  I have always wanted to build a pillowy long travel suspension in the bronco, but realistically with the heavy motor and bumpers it would be a waste.  

I am absolutely blessed in the understanding wife department.  She puts up with a lot of my working on beater vehicles mostly without grumbling. Very rarely there is mention of me needing to get a "nice" vehicle.
 Occasionally she gets fed up with the interior apart, rattles of tools if she rides in them, or the relentless hunt for the right parts, but she sticks with me and doesn't complain about it very much.  

The plan of attack today:

Fix wiring harness to transmission.
Find the "right" couple bolts for the transmission mount.
Tie wiring up.
Try to get the carpet, shift plate, and boot installed.
Recheck drive shaft bolts, verify no bolts have been missed.
Possibly heat and bend transfer case lever so it is closer to floor in 2wd.
Let the transmission fluid drain completely out and refill.

The only part I think I need to dig up yet for the "conversion" is I need to find a manual transmission instrument cluster blank plate, but that is a no rush issue.

There is still a big list to do in the long term, but out of the scope of this thread.

Here is hoping everyone did have an enjoyable and safe holiday yesterday

Congratulations on the first drive sounds like it turned out a lot better than mine, I lost the brakes & the clutch linkage
Dave ----

I drove a couple miles on the property, so I was pretty sure I had most everything in good shape.

I am fortunate to have about a 10 mile loop I can make out here in the country.  Makes a good test run route.  Few good hills and starts and stops to check everything.

Since I got it driving the major modifications are now going to slow down for a while.  I will just finish up the little details and enjoy it for a while.

You DESERVE to kick back and enjoy it!  

That's quite a lot you've accomplished so far.  

Yes, you've done a great job!  So sort out the little details and take it easy.  And touch that brake pedal and grin.  

Post swap notes...

I have been enjoying driving the bronco full time for a while now.  Turns out I like it even more.  The brakes are mostly phenomenal.  I pulled a trailer yesterday (my small dump trailer) which I scaled at 9700 lbs loaded total weight and 8050 lbs empty total weight.  The stick shift is delightful to pull with compared to the old slush box.  Always knowing what is going to happen and controlling the change to the next gear both up and down is a major improvment.  The small hill I start from a stop sign on I was able to run about 10 mph faster at the top than normal from this difference.  The brakes now are better with the loaded trailer in tow than they were with the stock booster/master with f250 brakes and empty bronco.  It will stop more then you can comfortably handle.  The one complaint with the hydroboost (the same as always) is the lack of braking ability with the motor off.  This is the same issue the old work truck I used had.  Lets say you are trying to move a trailer on a hill and you kill the motor trying to maneuver.  You have nearly zero brakes to stop from rolling.  Mind you this old 6.9 idi is harder to kill than the F-superduty's 460, but it is still an issue I do not care for.  Even with just the bronco, it has little brakes for moving the bronco around by hand.

That being said, I can completely live with this issue with the improvement in all around braking ability.  

I do concede that the T19 is much less civilized than the zf transmissions, but it fits better with this projects overall style.  The shifts feel very satisfyingly mechanical, a definite click out of gear and a click into the next gear.  I can run highway and all but lunatic interstate speeds just fine with the t19 and 3.55 gears.  Pretty close to the performance of my other trucks with 4:10 gears and the zf.  I am sure fuel economy will settle down a bit better than it was before, but do not expect to hear that officially for a while (the shifting gears is too enjoyable to worry about the fuel economy for now).  

I haven't been able to get the clutch switch figured out yet as wires are not simple to get to, but it is a factory wiring underneath for a manual now.  

Bolts have been rechecked, and no particular new leaks.  

Just a few hiccups...

Wipers quit working (connector was loose from swap) but fixed.

Removed the throttle lock due to alleged interference with clutch pedal (no interference, different problem) have not reinstalled yet.

Clutch start wiring needs to be resolved to get clutch safety switch working.

Reverse lights not currently working. Need to check switch.

The interior noise isn't really any louder that I can tell, it is just a different tone, but could be from failing muffler that needs replaced.

I suppose I need to start thinking about figuring out doing body work.  It is one of the things I have never really tried before.  If the bronco body is going to stay there is a lot of work that will need done.  

If I decide to go with a bobbed bed/flatbed and a regular cab it would be substantially less work, but those are long term issues.

I guess that will conclude the posting in this thread as the project is pretty much complete.  I will answer any questions I can and try to start a new thread for the next round of modifications...

The final thing I want to mention is a very big thank you to all of you who followed along, gave any insight, or posted information that I may have used to pull this off.  Keeping this old beater going is a lot easier because of all the people who share their knowledge.  That is why I try to post when I do work on the bronco to hopefully help others out.

Thank you.

Thanks for the follow up! Great job! Neat to see these old rigs going strong!

Thanks for the follow up! I agree that is one slight downside to the hydroboost. From what I recall with the vacuum brake 6.9 IDI you had one good brake pump after the engine stalled because of the vacuum reservoir, and with the hydroboost it’s gone right away... and manually force braking with no hydraulic boost is a little worse than with a stalled engine and vacuum booster. The benefits are so huge that I don’t consider its behavior in a fail condition to be a real drawback.

How is the close ratio 1st gear working out with your towing requirements? Are you happy with it or wishing you went with the 5.11?

Congrat's!  Well done!

Glad it worked out so well.  And I cannot wait to get the same silly grin on my hydroboost swap.

The close ratio is exactly what I had expected considering it is the same setup as the f350.  I just liked the idea of the lower first gear and the fact that wide ratio transmission only has like 70000 miles on it compared to the close ratios many miles (100000 plus).  I still contend that a wide ratio transmission with the AA overdrive torque splitter might be the best option.  If I can save up enough extra money I just might try it.  I have several other modifications on the to do list first though.  As far as starting out, it handled the stop sign (at bottom of hill) just fine, which is my measuring stick.  The close to 10k lb load wasn't all that heavy, but a good starting place to move up from.  I will have to try delivering with the bigger trailer, but I believe the results will be the same (only slower).  The IDI's are many things, but fast really is not one of those things.  

I have had several situations with the F-Superduty years past where you have a heavy trailer, heavy truck, and steep incline on a work site we were on and trying to get the trailer positioned and the engine dies (mainly due to lack of 4x4 low in that truck) and the brakes with a non running motor wouldn't hold a position.  You end up putting the truck in gear and setting the parking brake then hopping out and putting a wheel chock behind a tire in order to get the truck restarted.  It isn't so bad if someone else is spotting you backing up, but doing this maneuver solo is a nerve racking procedure.  The same truck, only in f250, you could physically stand on the pedal and hold the position of truck and trailer while you restart.  The hydroboost/master of F Superduty is like the pedal just goes away without the powersteering pump turning.  It is those handful of times that are so vivid in my memory due to the stress level of the events.  I imagine a non existant problem with an automatic.

Gary Lewis wrote

Congrat's!  Well done!

Glad it worked out so well.  And I cannot wait to get the same silly grin on my hydroboost swap.

An honorable thing to mention for you would be to note with my brake setup going from the F150/Bronco small vacuum booster and stock master cylinder to the hydroboost and 1 5/16" master cylinder with all f250 style brakes (dual piston calipers and larger wheel cylinders on 10.25) is the fact that I went from barely adequate brakes to better than I expected brakes.  The first real brake test resulted in all the tools and spare parts I had onboard rearranging themselves in the cargo area.  My tool box has been in the back for years with no issues moving around or tipping over, but it nearly made a full backflip.  Reinforced the idea that I need to come up with a better, more permanent storage solution for my onboard tools.  Just be sure you have your seatbelt adjusted comfortably and anything that can move tied down.  The brakes were literally that much better.  So long as you have that in order I am sure the grin will be hard to remove.

That doesn't sound like fun!  And that concerns me since I plan to take Big Blue off road, where stalling could happen.  But, I have a transfer case (BW1345) with a low gear and the ZF5 w/a 5.72 first gear, so hopefully the 460's compression will stop it if need be.

IDIBronco wrote

An honorable thing to mention for you would be to note with my brake setup going from the F150/Bronco small vacuum booster and stock master cylinder to the hydroboost and 1 5/16" master cylinder with all f250 style brakes (dual piston calipers and larger wheel cylinders on 10.25) is the fact that I went from barely adequate brakes to better than I expected brakes.  The first real brake test resulted in all the tools and spare parts I had onboard rearranging themselves in the cargo area.  My tool box has been in the back for years with no issues moving around or tipping over, but it nearly made a full backflip.  Reinforced the idea that I need to come up with a better, more permanent storage solution for my onboard tools.  Just be sure you have your seatbelt adjusted comfortably and anything that can move tied down.  The brakes were literally that much better.  So long as you have that in order I am sure the grin will be hard to remove.

I'm looking forward to it!

It isn't probably as big of a deal as I made it out to be IF, and only IF, you understand and know it could happen.  The first couple times it happened to me were a BIG surprise.  I think you would probably be fine in a truck only situation.  When you get a hydroboost going I recommend getting the truck rolling and shutting the engine off (with steering wheel not locked) and try the brakes in a safe spot (deserted parking lot or long driveway maybe) and test what brakes you have.  Then let off the brakes and try again, remember there is a small canister on the side of the booster that is supposed to be a hydraulic accumulator (if I understand correctly) and store 1 pedal pump worth of braking.  That one simple test will show you what happens and what it feels like.  Should be a mandatory step in a hydroboost conversion process for the safety of everyone.  Consider if the power steering belt broke or came off while driving... things that perhaps my younger self would have never given a second thought.