IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

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IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
Yesterday, I decided I would finally start on the swap on my bronco.  I went over to the parts van I had and rapidly removed all the parts I had thought I would require.  The van is a 1983 (have to find build date) with a 300 I6.  I have been talking with Jonathan (Ford F834) and he had been kind enough to send me a gas V8 bracket that was thought to work with pump and pulley from my van.  I know I have read in several places on forums the gas v8 v belt brackets should interchange with the IDI.  The parts came off the van so easy (less than 20 minutes I had it all ready to go) I decided I would try and see how they would go onto the bronco.  So I pulled my pump and bracket off and snaked the pressure hose out, and this is where the problems began.

First, I noticed that the van's steering box and the Bronco's box had different threads for the pressure line input into the box.  The bronco used a double flare fitting, the van had some kind of an o-ring fitting.  After a bit of thought I decided to pull the fitting off the rear of the Saginaw and see if it would swap around with the one that came off the bronco.  It looked promising so I decided I would give it a whirl as it would allow me to hook everything up using the bronco's pressure hose to the Saginaw pump until I could source a proper hose to work with the Saginaw's fitting.  It took a little tweaking of the bends in the line, but it appeared I would be able to get everything to hook up and lay in a reasonably safe area.  Up until this point I had held the pump in position with just the pivot bolt.  Next, I attempted to  install the belt and see how length and alignment were going to work out.  I quickly saw the belt would need to be shorter to work.  So I tried to get the adjuster bolt to hold the pump in place close enough to take some measurements for belt length and I found the bolt wouldn't start.  I thought at first it was a different thread size and decided to pull the pump out to look more closely at the bracket since I hadn't actually checked to see if the c2 pumps bolt would fit before installing.  Once I had the idi and gas v8 bracket side by side it was obvious the bolt was a different size.  I found one of the original bolts that mount the C2 pump to the aluminum bracket were the right size and appropriate length.  So back in the bronco everything went.  Now this time after getting everything snaked back in and up to installing the pivot bolt, the bolt still wouldn't start.  My frustration with the project is starting to grow at this point, but I am used to little hurdles with projects.  I decided to press on.  I made the decision to once again remove the pump to figure out exactly the cause of the problem.  I took some time to inspect and compare the mounting hole locations on the c2 bracket and the Saginaw bracket.  When holding the brackets up face to face you can overlap the mounting holes.  It would appear (in rain and less then perfect lighting conditions) that the 2 mounting holes are not the same spacing between the Saginaw gas V8 bracket and the IDI c2 bracket.  Additionally, the gas v8 Saginaw and the 300 I6 Saginaw brackets used the same spacing for the pivot and adjuster holes.  The holes are spaced approximately half a hole diameter off.  I will hopefully get some accurate measurements of the difference tonight after work, but it appears that some modifications will have to be made in order to get my brackets to work.  Having become wet and frustrated, I admitted defeat for the evening.  I cleaned up the tools and parts and closed everything up for the night.

I decided to hopefully be able to document what it takes to make this work.  If anyone has used the V8 Gas bracket on an IDI please let me know what you did.  It is possible that the brackets on the IDI I have in the bronco are unusual.  I know a lot of discussion has already taken place on this forum about the IDI Saginaw serpentine swap options, and there is a lot of knowledgeable people here.  So I look forward to hearing from anyone with some input.  

I hope to hear that I have grossly missed some simple detail and would gladly admit the error I have made, but for the time I do not think the gas v8 bracket will work on the IDI.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bummer!

I know nothing about the brackets.  In fact, I don't have any of them to measure.  But, when you get this all worked out we do need to document it, and that's where I can help.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
This post was updated on .
Once it is figured out I will gladly work with you to get some properly documenting photos and information.  

Note:  work delay due to rain.  No news tonight.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
Andrew, I am sorry for the problem. I don’t understand how the same bracket can drop in place of the C2 aluminum one on my I-6 but not on the IDI. I need to look into it. I’m Facebook friends with an IDI guy who is running Saginaw on his V belt IDI. That’s who I got pics from, and it looks likes one of Craig’s pics illustrates exactly what you are talking about. I’m betting he will have an answer. Stay tuned...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
I think I figured out a decent solution.  I should be back together and have more information tomorrow.

I am planning on running the 300 bracket with some modification.  It needs spacers front and rear to align the pulley front to back.  And the pivot hole needs to move 1/4" to work.  

Hopefully, plenty of pictures tomorrow.

Notes:

C2 pump bracket pivot to adjuster mount holes are 3.25 inch center to center

Saginaw 300 and the bracket I got from Jonathan are both 3 inches center to center

The 300 Saginaw bracket has different rear offset compared to the one Johnathan sent.

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco


The bracket starting point



First attempt to adjust the location of a hole.  I removed the welded nut from the back of the bracket and drilled a new hole.  This looked promising to work, but the issue was the long pivot bolt to the head couldn't be installed as there was just enough interference with the pulley that you couldn't get the bolt installed.  So back to the shop to figure out a different approach.



My next thought was just to locate the hole just off the location of the original hole to space the pump back out close to the original location.  I outline in blue the location approximately.  So I went ahead and commited to this location and decided to remove the steel to install a 1 inch O.D. 1/2 inch I.D. tube to use as the mount.  I made the tube 4 9/16" long to match my original c2 bracket.  I found with the 300 i6 saginaw bracket the pump needed to be shimmed back towards the head 3/8" to align belt properly.  So I mounted the tube with 3/8" in front of the bracket and made another piece of tube 3/8 thick to go in front of the adjuster hole.







I got the pump all assembeled and installed.  Started up the bronco and the belt is a bit loose fully adjusted so tomorrow I am picking up a belt 2 inches shorter, and I ordered a new pressure hose from a 1986 ford van (gates 359470) that I think should work and come in tomorrow by 2 at the local parts store.

Once I get the new belt installed and ensure the hose is right I will take everything apart one more time to paint the bracket.  I will take good installed pictures then and try to write up a how I made it work document with dimensions and what I used for parts.

I think I may go ahead and add a couple of triangular gussets from the tube to the bracket for more angular support then the little welds on the front and back, but I am not sure they are really needed.

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Gary Lewis
Administrator
It is really looking good!  And I think the triangular gussets would be a help.

Can't wait for the finished pics and writeup.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
So I’ve been messaging with Craig Montague today... who is an advocate of the V belt system as well as extremely knowledgeable of the IDI. He sent me pictures of the Saginaw differences and boy did I have it all screwed up. I did have the correct pump bracket engineering number... and the part I sent you, Andrew, is the right pump bracket for the IDI (D8TA-3A732-BA).   It shares this part with the 1978 and up 302 gas V8. Craig pointed out that the IDI ones had the engineering number stamped “upside down” relative to the installed position, and the gas ones have it stamped right side up for whatever reason... but either part will work.

The engine webbing support bracket is IDI van specific. Craig says his does not have an engineering number stamped on it. If trying to identify, measure the distance from the mounting hole to the adjustment pivot. It should be 3”. The Thompson / C2 pump is 3.25”.

The IDI also has a specific Saginaw pulley E3UC-AB. It has a different diameter and offset than the gas engine pulleys. It requires a belt for a 1983 Econoline with the 6.9 diesel. So much for “easy”... you pretty much need a complete IDI van donor 😔





























My one nagging question is whether the pump bracket on my straight six might have a different distance between the pivot and the adjuster bolt. It dropped right in where the C2 came out... I wedged my phone in there and got a shot of the engineering number. It’s diffierent. It is -GB instead of -BA. I don’t have the time to mess with it, and I can’t take my water hauler out of service, but I’m wondering if that bracket might replace the C2 bracket without a special engine bracket.








SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
This post was updated on .
An absolute treasure trove of hard to find information there.  

I know it is very unlikely I will ever turn up a diesel idi van to get parts from.  I am pleased with how the bracket is turning out.  It looks like I will have good clearance all around and alignment is all sorted out.  Hopefully I can get good pictures tomorrow.



Jonathan, I have been looking at this picture and I suspect now the c2 pump 300 bracket must be a different spacing than the v8 gas/idi brackets.  It must use the same 3" spacing between,the adjuster and pivot the Saginaw brackets use.



I may be mistaken, but the idi pulley in the picture looks like a double v groove.  I wonder how the belt routing was on the van if that is the case.  I sure would enjoy finding an old idi van to add to my collection to just study how the accessory drive is set up.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Ford F834
Administrator
The sad part is, I passed up an idi van thinking that I didn’t need anything from it. Damn 🤦‍♂️. I want to try to go back to see if it’s still there but I doubt it. That was last fall. I moved and it’s a far drive now just to take a peek.

I didn’t notice it at first, but you are right. The pulley looks like a double V. I have a double V Saginaw pulley from a 1986 GMC 6.2 diesel truck, but the front groove is smaller in diameter. I might be able to substitute it if it’s just an idler for the AC... but I have no idea how it will line up. Best thing would be to find a van, or press forward with engineering the serpentine bracket.

On the 300 it’s really tight to get in there to measure in place. But I stuck a tape in there just out of curiosity and it looks to me like it’s 3.25”. I so the -GB bracket might be a useful one if it does direct swap with the C2 aluminum one. Not to muddy the waters even worse, but Craig mentioned that he thought there may be more than one aluminum C2 bracket also... with perhaps a 3” spacing on some applications.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
Depending on that idi pulley offset, perhaps it would be able to use a idi or other dual belt pulley and not,have to offset the 300 bracket I used back toward the rear of the vehicle.  It would be nice to have had a bolt on solution for the engine easily procured, but the route I am taking is pretty simple.  Very basic measuring required, pretty simple welding.  The hardest part wouls be coming up with the tube stock with 1"o.d. and 1/2" I.d..  I have the advantage of just diggint through my box of lathe drops and found a piece of 1 inch solid bar I just chucked up in the lathe, parrted off to the right length and center drilled a 1/2" through hole.  You could probably use any readily available black pipe nipple with an appropriate I.d..  Just trim it to length.  

I have been out in the shop already this morning.  I am hoping to get the bracket all ready for final install before 2 this afternoon when my parts are supposed to come in.




















So I know it is a lot of pictures, but for fabricating something like this extra pictures can be pretty handy in case someone wants to replicate this bracket.  It is out in the shop with primer drying.  Pretty happy with how it is turning out.
 
I just noticed the pictures are importing upside down...  I will fix this on the computer later.  I will edit this post from a computer to rectify this tomorrow or tuesday maybe.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Ford F834
Administrator
That looks great! Thanks for documenting all sides/angles for future reference. That may very well help someone since IDI vans are so few and far between. I’m glad you are getting it sorted out, and again I apologize for the misinformation and sending you a part that did not work. I meant well, and we both learned a thing or two...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
This post was updated on .
No hard feelings at all.  I actually read about the same information other places.  I am just pretty pleased how this is going to work out.

Additional information.
The stock belt for the power steering is a 15/32 x 60 3/8
I am going to try a belt 2 inches shorter.  

Which would be a 15/32 x 58 3/8, the nice thing is the belt for alternator is the same size.  According to rock auto's information.

That means only carrying 1 spare for 2 of the belts.

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
Paint drying.
Installed and engine running.

I ended up having to get a belt only 1 inch shorter then stock (59 3/8")  it was a gates 9590.  I also had to modify the bends in the power steering pressure hose to make it work, but the ends were right and I can live with it now it is now.  My wife volenteered to come out and take pictures with a real camera if you guys think the pictures I put up are not good enough.  I do have quite a few more.  I intend to sit down and upload them all to the computer then rotate and crop everything to highlight the intended subject.  I haven't driven much yet, but it looks like no leaks, no loud pump cavitation (after bleeding steering back and forth a few times), and the steering assist is as good as the c2 ever was or better.  I am pretty pleased with this "easy" project, even though it wasn't particularly as simple as I had thought.  

Thanks again to everyone who has posted about this subject (saginaw swaps) in the past.  

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Ford F834
Administrator
Looks great! It Turned out to be a pain, but I think you will really like it. Mine got quieter after I ran it a while and I noticed a large difference in steering ease especially while not rolling. You do nice fab work 👍
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
I am not sure I would ever call my work nice.  I am just glad it worked out and my old used, unknown condition pump out of the van turned out to be good.  I would bet it hasn't ran in 8 years.  I have had it for about 3 and I traded a few mustang parts I had to get it for the manual transmission parts that are hard to find.  It is a 4 speed overdrive stick (3+od).  I drove the bronco around very little yesterday, but it is easier to steer.  Now it is also obvious the old pump made a substantial amount of noise as the bronco at all engine speeds sounds quite a bit different.  Overall, I am a pretty happy camper.

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I've heard many a C2-equipped truck coming.  Those are just awful sounding pumps when they whine, as they frequently do.  So I'm converting both Dad's truck as well as Big Blue to Saginaw pumps during their transformations.

Another benefit of the Sag is that it doesn't puke fluid out the neck if you turn the steering wheel with the engine off.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
How to install a Saginaw Power Steering Pump in a IDI V-Belt Truck (IDIBronco)

This will be an overview of how I was able to install a saginaw power steering pump from a ford van into my IDI powered Bronco.  For a little background, I had noticed the steering assist from my stock C2 pump had been getting less and the noise had been increasing.  I decided to do something about the problem and started to do a little research and found that the parts in the van I had sitting out back could be used (with some work) to convert to the Saginaw pump and correct the problem.  I try to use what I have access to rather than go and buy new parts or conversion pieces, so in typical fashion I dug around my junk parts and found most of what I needed to complete this project.

Starting Point



Completed



Details:
1985 Ford Bronco
1985 F250 Powertrain (6.9 IDI)
1980 Ford E150 parts van (300 I6)

Required parts:
Saginaw Pump
Stock Saginaw Pulley
Stock Saginaw Mounting Bracket (modified)
V Belt 1 inch shorter than stock (gates 9590, 59.5" length)
Round Tube 1 inch O.D. & 1/2 I.D., 6  inches long minimum (or close dimensions)
Power Steering Hose (I ordered a new one for a 1986 van, gates 359470) (modified)

Required Tools:
Mig Welder
typical Hand tools (wrenches, screw driver, etc.)
grinder, saw, file

Directions:
Remove parts required from the parts donor.  This included removing the Saginaw pump, complete with bracket and pulley.  This turns out to be quite easy if you have a van with a 300 I6, No Ac, and flat front tires.  The access to the parts is pretty simple.



I went ahead and removed the pressure and return hoses at this time with the pump, but as it turned out I didn't use either of them.

Next, I pulled the C2 pump, pulley, mounting bracket out of the bronco as a unit and also removed the power steering pressure hose as it would not be reused.

Now the fun part of measuring everything begins.  I did this conversion with the plan being to match the offset of the center line of the pulley from the mounting surface at the front edge of the C2 bracket.  You will have to be a bit understanding, because finding pictures that will demonstrate exactly what I am talking about are not the simplest to come up with...  



I quickly made the executive decision to let the measurements be "Close Enough" on all areas of this project as making a part like this accurate to more than about 1/16 of an inch is a bit ridiculous.  V belts can handle a bit of misalignment and I feel this is well within the limits of their use.  

I measured this offset as being 1 3/8".  



When I measure the offset of the Saginaw pump and bracket I measured the offset to be 1 3/4".  This means If I ran the Saginaw pump and bracket against the mount it would offset the pump 3/8" too far forward (1 3/4" - 1 3/8" = 3/8').  To rectify this I would have to space the pump and bracket 3/8" farther to the rear of the engine compared to how it was originally intended.  Additionally, the bracket is very different in design compared to the C2 bracket.  The C2 bracket I measured to be 4 9/16" from front to back where it mounts between the front mount and the head.  This is important because it is how the pump is held rigidly in place both front to back and provides the twisting support to offset the torque applied from the belt.  The issue is the Saginaw bracket from the 300 I6 is only approximately 1/4" thick.  So in order to make the full 4 9/16" required I would have to have a spacer behind the pump bracket as well.  The spacer would need to be sized at 3 15/16" (4 9/16" - 3/8" (front spacer) - 1/4" (bracket thickness) = 3 15/16").

The next issue is the pivot to adjuster bolt distance.  



The C2 bracket has a spacing of 3 1/4".

The Saginaw bracket has a spacing of 3".

Stock Bracket



So you have to modify the saginaw bracket to get the center of hole to center of hole distance to be 3 1/4".  I first attempted to just move the pivot hole to make this distance work within the confines of the bracket area.  



I drilled a hole where I thought this would work, but it created 2 problems.  You cannot move the pivot hole that direction because it reduces the amount of area the pump and bracket can swivel to adjust for belt tension, and the bolt will no longer clear the pulley for installation.

I then decided to fully modify the bracket.  Up until this point I had thought I could just get away with drilling a hole and some spacers, with no welding.  The welding would now be required in order to get 3 1/4" spacing between the holes and keep the ability to adjust the belt/install the bolt.

What I decided to do I cut some of the bracket away to weld a 4 9/16" tube to the bracket to make the bracket mimic the design of the C2 bracket.



Here you can see I had outlined in blue where I intended to remove the metal for the tube to be mounted.  You have to grind away the welded nut on the back of the bracket for the hole you intend to modify.



Next I torch cut the metal away, then ground, and finally filled until the tube (which measures 1" o.d., 1/2" i.d., 4 9/16" long) was a tight fit into the bracket.  I used a couple of welder setup magnets to hold the tube at a right angle in 2 different directions to the face of the bracket and spaced the front of the tub to be 3/8" above the face of the bracket.  I don't have a good setup picture, but I do have a couple pictures of it welded up.  I also welded the extra hole shut I had drilled.  





I then test fit the bracket on the pump to get an idea if any gussets would be able to be added without interference.  Additionally, I took several pictures to show the critical measurements.












Next, I test fit the pump in the bronco to check for clearance, alignment, and belt length.  It was apparent the factory belt would be too long, and I had plenty of room for gussets.  So out it came again for gussets.





I then cleaned everything and shot it with some primer.  Here I am including several pictures from many angles, as the primer makes everything easy to see.  If someone wants to duplicate my work these may be helpful.

























I then shot it with a coat of black paint.



I then installed the pump and bracket.  The tricky part is getting the new pressure hose to work.  It takes some creative adjustment to the shape of the bends.  I don't have a good picture of what I did to the hose, nor do I think a picture would easily show you what you would need to do.  You just have to adjust the bends (substantially) to get everything to connect, and stay out of harms way.  Perhaps there is a better way to do this, but I am pleased with how it turned out.  



The only real picture I have of the pump installed isn't great, but the results of the conversion are wonderful.  There no longer is squealing and I have great assist for the steering even when stopped.

 Conclusions

I would highly recommend anyone to do this conversion.  The C2 pump has been a great annoyance for me on several vehicles now.  I have converted a couple of them previous to this adventure, but this swap was by far the most involved.  I want to thank anyone who has helped or posted about doing this conversion as I did read and research a great deal before embarking on the project.  I did try to include some of the problem solving required to get the alignment of the belts to come out, as this same process can work for different pulley offsets and brackets if you cannot access the same bracket I used.  You just have to verify where you want the pulley to end up and space everything accordingly.  I could have used a gas V8 bracket to modify, but I felt that the 300 I6 bracket offered a greater amount of simplicity as it is just a simple flat bracket and not a horseshoe shape.  In the end I think I ended up with a pretty strong bracket and a great pump.  Now I need to decide what the next project will be.





1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

Gary Lewis
Administrator

Wow!  Just WOW!


That is an extremely well done how-to.  And, it deserves a place on the website itself as it won't be found nearly as easily or often here in the forum.

How about a new page called Saginaw Conversions in the Suspension & Steering/Steering?  With your approval I'll see what I can do using your words and layout.  But, if you want to email me your pics that might be better as I can use higher res pics on the web pages than I can here in the forum.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

IDIBronco
Gary Lewis wrote

Wow!  Just WOW!


That is an extremely well done how-to.  And, it deserves a place on the website itself as it won't be found nearly as easily or often here in the forum.

How about a new page called Saginaw Conversions in the Suspension & Steering/Steering?  With your approval I'll see what I can do using your words and layout.  But, if you want to email me your pics that might be better as I can use higher res pics on the web pages than I can here in the forum.
I will put a file together of the pictures sometime soon to send you.  I just edited pictures and modified them as I went so some pictures may or may not exist yet as they are shown in the how to i typed up.  I am more then happy to have the information be put somewhere that it can be found and put to good use.  I will send you an email or emails if it requires several to get the photos to you as soon as I can.  Weather permitting I might go take a few more "better" pictures of the finished installation.  When writing a how to description down I quickly could see I should have taken more pictures along the way, but I think there is enough there a person could copy the work I did.  I also only used the camera on my phone for all the pictures so the resolution available isn't all that great.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
12