Starter solenoid?

New member here looking for some help. I have a 1984 f350 crew cab long bed 460 4speed and this is my first "project". I bought it not able to start it for 500 and shes in pretty good shape for what she is. Anyways I have got it to start multiple times and even drove it but now I have this intermittent issue with the solenoid on the fender, at least I believe it is. The starter will stick when  I go to crank it but it's not all the time. I have replaced to solenoid I think 4 times just the regular napa replacement.  Everytime I install the new one I get 1 to 2 starts from it before it completely fries the solenoid. I have done everything I can think of, all the wires are fine, grounds fine, brand new starter, ignition switch, key cylinder. I just dont know anymore but I really want to get this ole girl running without having to drop a ton of money right now. Thank you for your replies, any help will be greatly appreciated guys

-Cody

If it was mine, I would get the starter checked. It could be on it's way out and drawing too many amps and frying the starter relay. I would also be suspicious of the starter solenoid. It's the one mounted on the starter itself, If it has one, the other one on the fender is the starter relay.

The starter I have is the one without the solenoid on it, I always confuse solenoid and relay I am sorry about that. So I just have the fender mount. I will take the starter to have it tested but if it is not the starter drawing too much what could it be? Would some new positive/negative and starter wires help? Larger size? Thank you for the input!

My advice to you is replace both battery cables and the starter cable.

These get black and corroded inside the insulation and cause resistance.
That in turn makes the relay pass insane amounts of amperage to try and feed the starter.

9/10 times it's the cables causing the relay to weld itself
DAMHIK

+2 on checking the cables. That will easily cause an increase in amperage draw

Okay sweet thank you guys I'll be goin to the parts store tomorrow hopefully that helps me out!

When you replace the ground cable to the front corner of the block make sure you add a smaller ground from that point back to the frame.
Motor mounts are isolators and the firewall ground does not complete the frame circuit.

Okay now you're onto something, my battery ground goes directly to the frame, but there is still the ground from the engine to the frame and they go to the same spot, if I run the cable from battery to the block, block to frame would that have been/maybe solve this issue?

It could certainly help!

The Motorcraft battery cable has a little 'flag' that connects to the frame, while the cable continues to the block.

Of course... the Motorcraft cable is $$$$ and a $10-20  2/0 cable from the parts store is just as good.
I think I have a 12" #6 garden tractor cable going back to the frame on my truck.

Do both of the grounds go to the same spot on the block? I would imagine they do but my knowledge is very limited. I'm going to be getting some big ole cables and a new relay tomorrow I really hope this solves it

The other solution, good for a long term fix, a PMGR starter from a later model truck. The fender relay then becomes just that, a simple relay. If you use the later cables, the ground goes directly to the lower starter bolt with a branch to the right fender and radiator support for body ground.

Yes Bill, those of us that have gone to the PMGR are never looking back.

But the inexpensive and simplistic approach is a new cable and clean connections.
Then add a small jumper back to the frame.

I'll look into the thread about the pmgr about how much would the conversion run? Since I just bought this new starter I think I'm going to keep trying until this one breaks  but if I cant fix it before then I might as well go for the conversion. Thank you!

My starter was $60 delivered iirc.
From DB Electrical.
They are on eBay and Amazon.
One year warranty.
Be sure to choose between manual and automatic.
They have different throwouts.

The only other thing you need is a piece of 10 or 12Ga primary wire and two eyelets.
The old starter cable goes to the battery side of the relay and the new trigger wire goes from the switched side (where the cable was) to the solenoid on the starter.

Do NOT leave the starter cable switched and just jumper it to the solenoid.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

The Motorcraft battery cable has a little 'flag' that connects to the frame, while the cable continues to the block.

To get around replacing that little 'flag', I just had two new cables made up and had them connect under the bolt where that flag was. Two doors down from where I work is an electric shop that does all of the wiring for police cars and other service vehicles, so I got them to make the cables for me. They used the nice heavy terminals and heat shrink on the ends. I'll make smaller wires myself...probably up to 10-12ga, but I don't have terminals, crimpers, or heat shrink for the big stuff.

PS: When I bought my truck, I installed a new starter solenoid (fender mount, original style replacement) and the bugger started sticking all the time. I replaced it with a Napa branded solenoid and that cured my problem, at least temporarily. I later replaced all of the heavy cables and grounds and have never had a problem since, and the truck still has the original 35 year old starter afaik.

PSS: I grabbed a PMGR starter from the junkyard a while back from a 1996 F150 w/manual trans. I plan to put a kit in it and install it at some point. I know how to wire it for 12v+, but it would still ground the same as my original wouldn't it? Or does it require any 12v- modifications?

You should just go ground to the block.
I don't care what the guy next door says or does. I know it is another point of corrosion on the ground path.

The block is fine to ground to.
Bill points out that using a starter bolt (like the 300's do) is better practice, and he is right.

But I didn't want to run my cable along under the exhaust manifold.
460's with their Thermactor injected exhaust get ferociously hot.

Jim, on the later trucks, the cables run along the oil pan rail just above the transmission cooler lines on automatics. You should remember, you pulled me the set I have on Darth from the 1995 F450. The front end of the cables are supported by a clamp attached to the ground stud on the side of the block. I still have a nice ground cable there, running to the frame from replacing a bad cable years ago.

I do remember, but I did my PMGR WAY BACK when I had my "starter woes" and didn't have that 'Y' relay cable then.

So when to napa and $160 later(ouch) I got brand new shiny cables and the "heavy duty" relay. All is well until I go to crank. I get nothing at all. All the connections are tight and I cleaned them all. I get power to everything even the old cb radio which didnt work until I did this. What could it be? Am I just missing something small or did I screw up with the bigger cables?

Can't mess it up with bigger cables.  You've probably put the little red/light blue wire on the wrong terminal on the relay/solenoid.  The later relays have two pins coming out, one for the r/lb wire and one for fuel pump control.  The r/lb wire usually goes on the front of the two smaller terminals.

Another possibility is that you didn't get the relay grounded to the fender.  It grounds through the screws that hold it on, so is they aren't tight it won't work.

And another is that you left one of the fuse links off.  But if things are working in the truck that didn't use to, then it sounds like you got most of them on.