Hydroboost Planning

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Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
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I know that Jonathan's done this, and Bill and I are planning on going with hydroboost.  But I need to think through the pump situation.

I have the C2 pump and hydroboost setup, including the all-important pedal, that Jim pulled off of the '95 F450 for me.  And Jonathan found me a Saginaw serpentine setup from a '90 E350.  So I want to use the Sag but need to devise a 2nd return.

Bill says a dual-return tank is probably available for the Sag, but I've also read that brazing in a 2nd return is easy.  Plus, I've seen others just put a tee in the return.

Thoughts?  Ideas?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
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There's some good info in this thread on the Expedition Portal.  One point is that he uses a tee in the return, and he seems to have done this many times.

And this thread on FSB says two things significant:

Mid '90s astro van has a saginaw pump with a remote reservoir setup.  (Jonathan!  )

A Saginaw power steering pump for a 2004 Silverado 2500 bolts right up to the Econoline bracket and it has dual returns.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Ford F834
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, the very easiest thing is a brass T. It only costs a few bucks and it works. I know I've told you this, and it's in my build thread, but for other readers I just wanted to verify that this is a valid way to run the returns.

However, if you don't like the idea of a T and the extra joints, it's not terribly hard to braze or weld in a second return into the steel Saginaw reservoir. That's how Tom Lee of Lee's steering did it in Truck Trend magazine install of a Saginaw in a F550:

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1205-8l-power-steering-upgrade-1999-ford-f550/



As you mentioned, there are also applications that have dual returns already:



https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1716



Only thing to remember is per Lee's steering article there are at least 50 different pumps and depending on how they are clocked they may or may not fit right in the bracket, or have the filler neck at an acceptable angle.

Gary, since I was doing the F150 on the cheap just to get it on the road, the T was the solution of choice. On my diesel I am wanting to do a third option that you have not covered yet... which is adding a filtration system with two inlets and one outlet:



For specific parts to do this look on page 10 of this article, post #99

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/7-1980-96-bronco-tech/174856-brake-hydroboost-upgrade-walk-throught-5.html#/topics/174856?page=10

This adds clutter, but does help the pump and booster live a longer life... just another option as if you didn't have enough choices to make!

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jonathan - That is very good info.  

But, the 2nd article seemed to say that in his application he was having back-pressure problems due to the tee.  Apparently the tee or downstream hose/fittings weren't enough to handle all the flow?

I do like the filter and cooler.  You said that things ran really hot on yours, so perhaps I should think about that.  However, with the EFI air box and the power distribution box on the driver's fender I'm not sure where anything else could go.

Anyway, thanks.  I'll keep reading and thinking.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Ford F834
Administrator
Gary, on the F550 he had a power steering rack. I think his flow was too high for the single return. I am certainly not an expert, but from the reading I've done that's what my impression is.

My high pressure line did get quite hot when I first installed the system. It still gets warm, but not like it did initially. I suspect that I had air in the lines and once it worked out the temperatures went down. I still want to run a cooler and a filter, since I could see things heating up during back country driving where you are braking and steering constantly without much air flow in the engine bay. But I admit I am conflicted. What I have in the '81 seems to work great. Adding a fin cooler and filter will add clutter as well as more joints to leak and hoses that can fail. On my '81 I may toss in an inline filter and call it a day. On the diesel I don't know yet. Might depend on the pump set up if I can work a remote reservoir into the mix...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
We are thinking alike.  Back country, lots of turning and braking equals lots of heat.  But, reliability goes down as the number of components goes up.  And, as I said, things are going to be getting tight under that hood.  We shall see.

Anyway, good to know yours has cooled down.  And, that the tee is working fine.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

85lebaront2
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Thoughts on the cooler, mine has the frame mounted loop, but for more, an auxiliary transmission cooler, either a factory one or aftermarket. I found this gem at Pick-n-Pull in Virginia beach, it mounts vertically in front of the radiator on a Dodge Durango and uses 3/8" ID hose that is crimped on to quick connect fittings.


This was the only transmission cooler the Durango had and it had the 4.7L V8 engine.
Bill Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - That looks like a good solution.  I should have room on the passenger's side to put that cooler once I get the engine oil cooler turned up and moved to the driver's side.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Ford F834
Administrator
In the for what it's worth department, I pulled a small, finned power steering fluid cooler from a 1999 F250 SuperDuty. This truck did not have hydroboost, but I don't know about rack steering. Evidently Ford thought it was necessary for that application...
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

85lebaront2
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My 1970 LTD and 1971 Colony Park, both with 429s had a small finned U shaped cooler mounted to the A/C compressor so it stuck down outside the belt area where plenty of air blew over it. I do not remember either of my Hydro-Boost GM Diesels having any kind of cooler installed.
Bill Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

1985 Bronco
Flowney on FTE just did this to his dentside, starts on post #465

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1333138-re-building-a-wrecked-f-150-bent-frame-31.html
1976 Ford F150: Regular Cab, Long Bed, 2WD, 460, C6


1985 Ford Bronco: Sold

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks!  That's a good read.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In one of the above links someone mentioned Magna-Pure filters for the power steering/hydroboost system.  That reminded me of something I'd seen in the parts I acquired from Vernon.  I'd put them in the fuel system cabinet w/o reading what they say:

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

1986F150Six
It is like Christmas, again and again, and Vernon is Santa Claus.
1986 F150 4.9L manual O.D. 3.08 Duraspark MSD ignition w/ no EGR
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Amen, brother!  I recently invited Vernon to join us on this forum.  Hope he takes the offer up.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

ArdWrknTrk
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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Last time I bought a rebuilt PS pump it was only available "with MagnaPure filtration"

I am assuming there are magnets glued inside the reservoir to capture any filings before they go back through the pump
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Looks like Magna-Pure is Cardone's brand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL4IokvT63k.  Might explain why your pump came with one.  The video shows that it is a magnetic ring set in a mesh filter.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Here's what a Magna-Pure looks like inside:




And here's the business parts.  The ring is a mild magnet and the screen will capture big stuff.  And, if it gets too clogged the pressure will overcome the spring and the flow will bypass the filter.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Alfie623
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary,

Are you looking for a dual return Saginaw pump?  If so, let me know because I have found a solution for my Bronco project.

1983 Bronco XLT being rebuilt/restored with a 5.8 HO & ZF5 and a pile of other improvements..... Serpentine drive; saginaw saw; 3G swap; manual swap with a ZF5; hydro boost swap to name a few....
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Re: Hydroboost Planning

Ford F834
Administrator
Please share! Are you running V belts or serpentine?
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + GearVendors overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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