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Hydroboost Planning

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Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In the for-what-it’s-worth department, in all my reading on Saginaw conversions I have never heard any mention of multiple pressure line fitting types other than being different than C2. The business end that I bought for my conversion was packaged as a 3/8” fuel line repair kit so I’m thinking it must be a fairly standard thing?

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

85lebaront2

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Gary, remember when I took the pictures of the 460 Saginaw and one of the Chrysler 2.2/2.5L ones. The outlet fitting and flow control valve are what changes the actual pump portion, then the "ham can" or small round can + the pulley fits it to the engine application. Chrysler used the O-ring on the end of the tube as does GM with a fixed tube, Ford likes the swivel O-ring design.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Bill, this is exactly what I meant above.
That the other automakers use different output fittings.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Ok guys, the plot thickens. First, here's the fitting on the Sag for Dad's truck, which clearly takes a flare:

And here's the fitting on the Sag from the '95 Superduty with a partial o-ring in it on the left, which is what was confusing me, and w/o it on the right. Obviously it takes a fitting with an o-ring on the end.

Then here's the hose fitting that is needed, which is the end of the Chevy hose with the partial 0-ring dug out of the Sag fitting:

Then here's the fitting on the C-II pump from the Superduty and the fitting on the hose that mated with it. I don't fully understand how this seals as the tip of the hose fitting is .250" OD at its smallest point and the hole in the pump's fitting is .1875". But, that's really not important as we've figured out what the Saginaw pumps I have need.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

So, there are at least two fittings for the Sag pump - flare and o-ring style. I don't remember off hand where I got the one for Dad's truck, but will look for what I said when I got it. But we know the one for the Superduty takes an o-ring.

So now we need to decide on the best approach to get the right hose. Here are three different approaches, but I'm sure there are others. Please chime in:

Use the flare fitting, either via using the pump that was for Dad's truck or swapping fittings. And then have a hose made with a flare on the bottom. That could be done via using the Superduty replacement hose like Alfie did.

Stay with the o-ring fitting and have that style of end put on a new Superduty hose.

Use the o-ring fitting and have a new fitting put on the top of the Chevy hose - assuming the Chevy hose will connect to the pump w/o a lot of re-bending, and I'll check that out after lunch......

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

The Chevy hose has a long metal tube down at the bottom that has all the wrong bends on it, so it isn't a good place to start. I think I'll return it and get the Superduty hose that goes to the C-II pump and then have a new fitting put on it.

But I need to figure out what bends it ought to have in the metal tubing, so I put the bits and pieces together to see what would be needed.

First, here are the lines connected to the booster. The low pressure return and the supply from the pump are the ones that came with the booster from the Superduty. The high pressure return is the new Superduty one.

And this shows the lower end:

And then here's the back of the pump. The red line shows what I'm thinking for the metal line to go to the pump's output, and there's plenty of room to make gentle bends. And, Jonathan, do you remember what the bracket circled in yellow goes to?

And I installed the cooler off Huck:

And here are the low pressure return lines. the return from the hydrobooster fits the Saginaw pump like it was made for it, and I'll install a tee as shown and connect the return from the cooler to it. The return line from the booster measures .388 ID and the one from the cooler measures .313". But a 3/8" barb fits perfectly.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

The return labeled is printed for the Chevy line and the Superduty line is on order. Now I need to find someone that will put the fitting the new hose. IIRC I've had O'Reilly's here make hoses. Or was it Bumper To Bumper? Guess I need to talk to these folks and see.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In AZ I could not get any of the parts houses to make one, even Napa. I had to go to a machine shop.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Bummer! I hope that isn't the case here.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

We have an independent jobber here that will make hoses, a lot of what they do is heavy stuff, farm equipment and big trucks.

What is the strange bracket on the Saginaw pump?

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

I don't know what the bracket is. Was hoping Jonathan knows since he pulled the pump off the van.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, the C2 pump fitting seals at the outer end, under the hex, probably uses a washer or O-ring into a recess, it should be a swivel fitting that allows the hose to move if needed.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Yes, I found another hose I have that actually has a nylon gasket under the head of the fitting. So I realized that's how it seals there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Both my NAPA's have shops attached to them.
So did CarQuest, before Advance bought them out.

Around here any place that services plows or construction equipment will make up hydraulic lines on the spot.
Upfitter's that do plows, places that rent Bobcats, excavators and the like (United Rentals) or dedicated hydraulic shops.
Personally, I like Midland Truck Parts because I know everyone from the drivers to the manager, and they take care of me.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

85lebaront2 wrote

What is the strange bracket on the Saginaw pump?

The bracket is a serpentine 7.5L van bracket from a 1995 E350 Econoline. In addition to the large aluminum casting there was a steel leg that braces the back of the pump to the block.

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Ford F834 wrote

In addition to the large aluminum casting there was a steel leg that braces the back of the pump to the block.

Jonathan - I can't get that bracket to go to the block any way I twist it. Do you remember where on the block?

All - I think I may have figured things out on the needed hose. Let's see if I can articulate it.....

The fitting that goes into this Saginaw is a 3/8" pipe fitting with a .375" OD tube. And the business end of the tube where the o-ring goes is .337", with the o-ring itself measuring .300 ID x .430 OD x .067" thick as best I can measure.

The local parts stores don't have the right fittings, but recommended that I go to Ameriflex to have that fitting put on the end of the new hose. And, from the info that came with the hose, shown below, that is a Standard O-Ring Flare.

So that left me trying to figure out what bends I want on it. I found this one up in the attic, and while its fitting is a flare instead of an o-ring flare, meaning it is probably the right end for Dad's truck, it does screw into the fitting so it let me mock it up.

And here's a couple of shots of how it would fit. I'd been thinking that it should come out, turn right, then left/straight back and connect to the hose. What do you think?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Just talked to the folks at AmeriFlex. They don't really bend up a whole new end. Instead they usually have 5 or 6 different bent ends for any given fitting, and will lay them out on the counter and let me pick one of them. But, they might be able to tweak one a bit.

I doubt that they are going to have one as fancy as shown above. So I'm thinking of what will work. If they have one that'll do what is shown below it'll work great.

But it only takes "5 minutes" once I pick one, so next week after the one comes in from Rock Auto I'll go down and see what we can do.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary, I would first turn it around so the slot is on the pump. It may go to an exhaust manifold bolt.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Thanks, Bill. I did that thinking as you that it might go to an exhaust manifold bolt, but it didn't in that try. Maybe I'll give it another go tomorrow.

But that aluminum bracket is SOLID. I'm not sure it really needs a brace. However, if I can get it to go somewhere I'll use it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Hydroboost Planning

Administrator

Mine didn't come with a brace.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

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