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F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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Jonathan - If you need the '96 EVTM then let me know. But I hope things work when you get a battery in it.

As for my efforts, guys, I just like helping. But it is WE or US that do the work around here. I just set up the environment, but you do the bulk of the helping.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

salans7

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Johnathan, I hope this helps give you some ideas.

The first two pictures show the driver's side lower mount. This is where I made a bracket that attaches to the bullnose dash, and then allows me to mount it to the bricknose location. It's hard to tell, but that area is recessed which is why the bullnose dash won't bolt there.

This picture shows how I did the upper mounts. Both sides are the same. They are only tacked in place and held with a single bolt until I can pull the windshield and final weld. My windshield is shattered, hence why I'm just gonna weld the whole thing with it out. You could probably get away with just tac welding the under side and doing a bolt or plug weld like I did. The sections were cut out of my old cab, they're very small.

The next two pictures show the lower mount on the passenger side. You can see it's bolted just like a bullnose, as I took measurements and drilled the holes in the same place. You can see in the second picture the recess where the bricknose dash would mount.

And finally, this is the center speaker bracket. To get it to fit I had to cut and bend down the sections where the bricknose dash clips into, and once they were flat the speaker bracket slipped right over. You can see that there are two holes on the ends of the speaker bracket, and you can see which one was used to mount it to the bullnose cab. There is no meat there on a bricknose or aeronose, so I just used the other hole behind it after drilling through the lip near the windshield.

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Good info, Shaun! Even I understood that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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In reply to this post by salans7

Awesome!!! Thank you for the pictures Shaun. This helps a lot to understand what you did to make this work. I’m not going to say it looks easy because I know how tricky it is just to reach those fasteners on the correct (Bullnose) cab structure. However it does take some of the mystery out of it and it seems less intimidating. I wonder though if the the two corners by the windshield could be supported with L brackets instead of welding a flange like the original cab? As I mentioned, I do not have a donor cab to cut things from. I can probably obtain the upper pedal box support from the junkyard if I bring some chisels and a small sledge.

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

salans7

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

I'm sure that is definitely a possibility as long as the brackets are thick enough.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

So I am realizing that the Aeronose wire harness is modular. The big plug at the firewall separates a substantial loom that includes an under-hood fuse and relay box. The cab harness for sale on eBay is only half of what I need at best. I found the other half for sale, as well as a diesel instrument cluster, but the total shipped price for these three items would be $869.77

I realize these are eBay “gotcha where we wantcha” prices, but it’s starting to make a dash swap seem more and more reasonable since I have the wiring and parts for older trucks ready to go. I would like to check the Flagstaff and Prescott junkyards, but they are a 3.5 hr. drive from me. Seven hours of driving just to go check would put quite a dent in the labor time if I just stayed home and started the dash swap, no?

And another thing I discovered... the instrument clusters varied in how they were wired. 92/93 are the same 94/95 are the same and 96/97HD are the same. I’m guessing I would be okay as long as the cluster matched the cab and engine bay harnii, but using the wrong cluster can result in gauge issues and RABS problems. I don’t know if the F450’s had RABS? From what I am reading I would likely have to re-pin and/or re-wire some things to get everything functioning correctly.

FuzzFace2

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

In reply to this post by salans7

Jonathan,
Just to switch gears that truck looks to be a CC truck yes?
You are looking at pick up truck beds and you did say that the bed would be shorter but I thought the frame widths were different between the 2 frames?

I guess if the CC truck was skinnier you could just drill new holes in the bed but you would need to add a spacer (pipe?) between the bed and the bed cross member so you would not crush the bed floor when the bolts were tightened.

Good luck on the project
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

I think I already pointed this out.

Yes, all C&C trucks had straight rails at (33"???) wide.

You could purchase an F-350 as an incomplete vehicle, and still have pickup truck frame.
But a 450 is not a pickup, and it does have beefy rails.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

There are at least two things working at the same time - cost and experience. And it looks to me like the earlier wiring & dash wins on both of those.

Looking at it another way, I think you have three scenarios:

1: Forget replacing the wiring and go with the earlier dash and wiring, which you have. The cost will be next to nothing, but how much time will it take?

2: Decide to keep with the later dash and wiring and hope a salvage has the parts you need. You know that'll take a day to find out if they do and some amount of fuel. Then there's the cost to get it from the salvage. Did that spreadsheet you sent me some time ago have prices on harnii and gauges? Can you come up with a cost? Can you call the salvages?

3: Go with the ebay stuff, which you said will cost ~$900. Is that all? Does that give you everything?

Not sure that helps, but I'm just trying to get my head around things.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FuzzFace2

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I think I already pointed this out.

Yes, all C&C trucks had straight rails at (33"???) wide.

You could purchase an F-350 as an incomplete vehicle, and still have pickup truck frame.
But a 450 is not a pickup, and it does have beefy rails.

I must have missed it

Dave ----

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

We don't have numbered posts to refer to, but 6:21 on 3/3/20 in response to the weathered bed that looks like your paintjob, but with a Smurf blue cab and wheels.

I'd just go to Vulcan and scrap together a flatbed, but I can see the appeal of having it look factory, and being able to get parts off the shelf.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

FuzzFace2

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

ArdWrknTrk wrote

We don't have numbered posts to refer to, but 6:21 on 3/3/20 in response to the weathered bed that looks like your paintjob, but with a Smurf blue cab and wheels.

I'd just go to Vulcan and scrap together a flatbed, but I can see the appeal of having it look factory, and being able to get parts off the shelf.

I saw it but did not "see" it as I went back to read it.

I do miss Vulcan Scrap Metal as I have not found anything like it down here

Dave ----

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Well, all the industry is gone, thanks to 'Dan, the man' and the deal with the devil (BLT).

Pickings are slim over on Sunnyside, and the brothers are making strategic moves towards an exit.

I miss the days of the buildings on the south side of the street packed full of early computers and electronics.

I can usually find what I need, as far as scrap steel or stainless, but it's not like it was.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

FuzzFace2

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

I went to school with brothers & cousins that lived in waterside just around the corner and 2 of them worked there. Vulcan even sponsored 1 if our 4x4 race team Jeeps, Beer Nuts of Nuts Off Road Racing.
Kelsey Paving who I worked for back in 83, shared the lot with Vulcan.

Before I moved down here to NC I heard times were changing there.
Sign of the times they say?
Dave ----

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by FuzzFace2

Gary, the junkyards here will charge me $36-$48 per harness, and would consider the Aeronose to be two separate ones. An electronic speedometer cluster would be another $50-ish. There is no way I am going to pay ~$900 for wiring and a cluster. Especially when the seller has wrong pictures for one ad, and a general engine bay picture for the other. For that price I would just live with a hot-wired engine and a couple aftermarket gauges.

That being said, I don’t think that a dash swap is an unreasonable amount of effort to make everything work correctly. Even a harness swap is going to require the dash to come out. I’m not trying to minimize the work involved in a dash swap, but ultimately it’s just a big plastic facia that holds stuff... and needs some mounting points made. Since this is a Bullnose forum, I’m sure everyone would like to see a Bullnose dash and clip swap. I would like that also, but I can’t ignore that going Bricknose (dash and front clip) would definitely be easier and require the fewest additional parts to complete.

The clip swap would solve the core support issue. I looked at Bricknose vs Aeronose to see if the fender brackets could be swapped and the holes re-shaped for the lights, but there is a lot more to it than that with the hood latch and grille mounting. I would be time and money ahead just to buy the pair of Bricknose fenders and run with the front end off the ‘89 donor.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

This was my thoughts, way upthread.

Fenders are cheap and they have the much better battery tray(s).
Heck, in the desert SW, I don't imagine there's much rot like here in New England.

Path of least resistance, and all....
Having a (nearly) complete donor on-site is a huge plus!

I think of my brick as the homely woman who makes a great wife.

Always on your side and ready to pull her weight no matter what we face- together-

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

So going Bricknose just requires two fenders, and you have everything else? That doesn't sound too bad.

But going Bullnose? The whole front clip and wiring harness plus dash and gauges?

Even if you have some of the stuff for the Bullnose swap it sure sounds easier to do the Bricknose swap. Kind of like your buy of the other truck was meant to be.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

On the other hand, if a Brick-to-Bull swap is that easy, then maybe go with Bullnose fenders, grille, and headlights but keep the Brick wiring and dash. Does that require a different radiator support? If so, forget it.

But most people wouldn't notice that different dash since externally it looks like a Bull save for the wheel well openings.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

So the Bricknose donor must have come spent some time in rust country. It is pretty crusty underneath and the fenders are rotten. Junkyard replacements are $55 each at the Kingman pick-a-part. The core support looks solid. To make the interior congruent, I would want Bricknose crank window door panels but that is a minor detail.

For a Bullnose swap, I have an extra hood at my dad’s place in Camp Verde. I just bought the diesel core support and cab/engine wire harness. I would need fenders, inner plastic fender aprons, cowl piece, inside and outside HVAC box, air ducts, HVAC controller, cable, vacuum harness, vacuum motors, pedal box, and the metal firewall brace pieces above the pedal box, duct support and the speaker/dash support. I would also have the reversed resistance on the fuel sender(s) to contend with if I wanted the Bullnose fuel gauge to work.

Both Bricknose and Bullnose will have the snag of the frame horns being wrong for the front bumper. But the horns can be cut and a Z bracket made to mount the stock bumper. Alternatively I may fabricate something heavier.

I will have to think about the Bullnose front clip with Bricknose interior. The mis-match might bug me, and I might rather save the core support for a some-day diesel Bronco. It’s hard, but I’m trying not to let the water hauler turn into a “restoration” project.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Fenders are cheap.
How much are crank doors, without totally chalky window sills?

It's a farm truck (no, not that farm truck!)
You have the IDI Brick.
Just cut the horns off it and transplant the bumper.
Or, like I said when you creamed that burro, find a wrecker push bumper.

I really think that's what this truck wants, but it's up to you.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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