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F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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This post was updated on .

Jonathan,
The *tear in the passenger door is from the vent window pivot.

There was a small 'bridge' of sheet metal holding the inner and outer door skins together.
When that tears from flexing, the door skin goes next.
I've welded mine many times.
When the door bottom rusted out I said screw it and pop riveted a backer on the inside.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Thanks for the explanation Jim, that is a bummer. And it’s a bummer that Bricknose doors are also affected, as that was my next idea to use the doors off of the ‘89. Do you know if bullnose doors also have the same design flaw?

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

salans7

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

I can confirm that they do, the doors from my 86 also failed at the same spot. Every door that had the western swing away mirrors was affected by it.

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

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In reply to this post by Ford F834

Ford F834 wrote

Gary do you have any wire diagrams that might cover 1995? I particularly need details about the charging circuits and starter/ignition

Yes, I have a 1995 EVTM. I'll scan those sections in tomorrow.

On the core support, I remember burning through the one you brought me as I welded up the little cracks in it. Luckily it was while and all the cracks were easy to see. But I was surprised how thin the metal is. However, all welded up I'll be yours, as well as mine, will be quite solid. Thanks again.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by salans7

I'm very sure it is mirror vibration that does it.

What I can't understand is why it hasn't happened to my driver's side, since that door gets slammed 10x as often as the right.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thank you very much Gary, that should help facilitate the decision on which direction to go with this. I am not great with electrical, so this is a headache for me either way.

Shaun, this truck has tripod style mirrors, and the crack is just ahead of the bracket. But Jim is right, the whole door skin feels pretty floppy and not supported:

Buried in this thread probably isn’t the best place for a welding question, but the guy who repaired the core support advised against argon gas. He said not only is it expensive, but produces a brittle weld. He suggested plain old CO2. Since it looks like I have more welding to do, I’m thinking I should get some gas and wire for my Lincoln. For as little as I weld, the price of argon is acceptable, but brittle does not sound good to me. Does anyone have any suggestions before I invest in the bottle and gas?

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

As someone who just went through two bottles of gas in my MIG I'm going to say neither is good for sheet metal.

Co2 is great for thick sections in a production environment.
It's cheap, it helps keep the arc stable and it concentrates a lot of heat in the weld pool.

Argon is not so easy to keep the arc stable without a tungsten.
With wire feed the wire is always burning back and this matters a lot.

If I were to go get a tank for doing bodywork and welding up to... say 1/4" I would get 75/25 Ar/CO2.
It's a pleasure to weld with this stuff.

Do you buy or rent a tank?
I own my 80 c.f. and only swap it out.
If you decide to do this you'll probably pay premium for a shiny new tank, and never see it again.
Buying used (with a current cert) is the rational choice to me.

If you use gas every day, or have a 125 or bigger you may have to rent.
State laws about cylinders vary.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Thank you for the advice Jim, I will try that mixture. I have to fish plate the frame on my crew cab (1/4”) plus a lot of other jobs on thin metal... body sheet metal, intercooler pipes and exhaust etc., so your description fits exactly. I was going to buy an argon bottle on eBay and have it filled, but if it is by exchange I don’t want to turn in a brand new cylinder. I guess I should contact supply stores that sell gas and see what is available as far as refill and exchange options. Being a novice I should use whatever is most forgiving and easiest to work with.

salans7

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

I like these trucks, but the thickness of the metal in high use areas leaves a lot to be desired.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

If you buy an inert gas bottle you can have it filled with *whatever*
The welding supply will just slap a sticker on it identifying the contents.
IF they do fills on the spot.

There are conventions WRT which colors are for what gas (beyond the obvious, like green for O2 or black and silver for acetylene)
I think my 75/25 cylinder is maroon or burgundy.

My advice is not that of a professional weldor.
My skill is not there, like some guys I know who weld nuclear, precision equipment, airframes or submarines.
I'm just telling you what works best for me., and I hope it's good advice.

I never heard that about argon leading to brittle welds.
I'm going to ask some friends.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Thanks, I will gladly take advice from another non-professional regarding what worked well and give it a try. I, too, want to fact check the brittle weld claim. This guy is obviously good, and he has been welding for a living his whole life. He owns some pretty crazy equipment and is not “shade tree” but just because he does it a certain way does not make it science. Argon and argon mixtures cost a lot more than CO2, and it’s hard to believe people would continue to buy and use it if it did not have advantages over CO2.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

This post was updated on .

I typed a big reply and "poof"!

I get my 80 swapped for $32.50.
Best price I've found and prices vary A LOT, so if you can, check around.

Also try on some scrap turning down the flowmeter until it acts up and then go back.
Almost like adjusting idle mixture by vacuum.
There's no need to waste gas.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Thanks Jim... more good advice! I did find an article that says 100% argon isn’t suitable for regular mig steel welding as it produces narrow, deeply penetrating welds that are brittle. Maybe that’s what this guy was talking about, not a blend...

https://welditu.com/welding/tips-mig/mig-welding-with-100-argon/

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

I think WelderScott has me on a 3-gas mix, but I can't remember what the 3rd gas is. Or, even if there is one.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ford F834

Right, but you'll need pure argon for TIG, if you're MIG welding stainless (or using a spool gun for aluminum)

Ask the guy who welded up your radiator support.
I'm sure he's forgotten more than I'll ever know.

Dual shield is good with straight CO2.

I think CO2 and mix are inherently safer in many situations too.
At least if you're in a tank or vessel being built you will feel like you're suffocating before you go under.
The human body has no reaction to straight argon.(or any of the noble gasses)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Tri mix is mostly helium, but that gets real spendy!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

I was wrong.

WelderScott called about something else so I asked him what gas I have - 90/10. He said that it is a good all-round gas, but it runs a bit hotter than 75/25. So if you are welding sheet metal just turn the heat down and you'll have a good weld. But, if doing 1/4" stuff all the time he'd recommend 75/25.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

Thanks Gary, that is helpful. Except for fish-plate the crew cab frame, most of the welding jobs that come to mind right now are on thinner metal. I will see what my options are here for mixes. I just need a flexible all purpose one to learn on and hopefully get acceptable results...

Gary Lewis

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

He said the 90/10 would be fine for fishplating the frame, just not quite as good as 75/25.

And I asked him if he remembered you. He said "Sure! He's the guy that gave me the Ford emblem for my truck - and didn't tell me."

Btw, almost done with the EVTM. Turns out it is a '96. But it should work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Hmmm, that's not an option where I go.

They do have 95/5, but that's too hot and spattery for my skill on any kind of sheet metal.
I have a hard time finding balance between penetration and burn through.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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