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E4OD For Dad’s Truck

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Ford F834

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Gary, I looked at my shift indicator and it seems like I may have the earlier one. The engineering number on it is E0TF-7B033, and the OD position on the face looks different than yours. Yours has a very narrow elliptical shape whereas mine is more oblong with rounded corners with the D inside. Very minor difference but it supports that we may have one of each.

As you know there is not much to these, and the needle moves linearly with the cable. Are the "notches" defined by the column or the transmission? I see that the E4OD indicator has fairly even spacing between the gears while the AOD indicator has the 1 set out a bit to the left. I was just curious if the two AOD versions had the same spacing or if that could be a possible difference? My perception is that both pics of our AOD indicators and C6 style indicator all look about the same, but that is just a perception.

It would seem to me that a C6 indicator would be more "correct" with D simply being drive/overdrive depending on your switch. You could potentially wire it so that OD "off" illuminated the upshift indicator in the indicator light bank???

Here are pics of my shift indicator:

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

I think I agree that the C6 indicator is the best bet, unless Bill tells me how to use the E4 OD one. I checked the overall travel and the AOD one moves about 1 1/4” from Park to 1st, and the E4OD one about 1 1/2”. So there may be a problem making a non-E4 indicator display the right gear.

But, that does bring up your question about where the notches are. I’ll check the huck tomorrow, but I think they are in the tranny. So, assuming that the Bullnose column has the same range of motion as the later columns, a Bullnose column coupled with a later indicator may work well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

It would be a shame to loose the bullnose cosmetics, waffle pattern background/raised letters and needle style indicator, but at some point you have to favor function over cosmetics. If the C6 one would read all wonky then that would probably be worse than one that is cosmetically mis-matched. Evidently you adjust it in relation to the "drive" position notch?

http://broncozone.com/topic/20311-gear-shift-indicator/

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

I agree it would be a shame to lose the aesthetics. So I'm hoping the C6 one will work. Plus, it is the easiest one to use.

As for adjusting, I've read those directions before, but in the end wound up placing it in Park on the column and the tranny, and adjusting the linkage to go together. Then I adjusted the indicator and all was good. Anyway, thanks.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ken Blythen

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Gary, I had the same problem when I temporarily swapped a C6 into my truck in place of the original failing AOD.

The C6 was from an Econoline van & had a longer selector lever on the side of the transmission....so I shortened it to match the original AOD lever.

This gave the correct travel distance between each indicator symbol (P-R-N-OD-D-1), & also the lever positions down on the transmission.

I still had the AOD indicator on the dash, but the longer term plan was for the current T19 anyway.

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Interesting! Hadn’t thought about there being different levers. But as my E4 is from an F250 it probably has the correct lever. Still, that’s something to consider. Thanks, Ken.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

The key is that it has a mechanical linkage instead of a cable.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Bill - I missed your comment. Yes, the E4OD that I have from the '90 has a rod-style linkage so will work with the Bullnose shifter.

And, I remembered to scope out the relay boxes that I have. As shown below, I have the boxes:

A 4-place box, shown at the top with ???, but I don't know the origin. It has places for 3 Bosch-style relays, and one high-current relay (F80B-14B192-AA) given its blade sizes. I'm thinking this might be a good box for both the headlight relays and the fan relays - assuming I go with electric fans.

An 89/90 Taurus/Sable, shown on the left. It is too big for just the headlights and fans.

A mid-90's F150, with an attached external box. The main box has places for 3 small relays and 3 Bosch relays. The smaller box has places for 6 smaller relays, although only 4 are wired, and 1 Bosch.

The 1995 F450 that Jim parted out, and it has places for 5 Bosch relays.

So, I think I may go with the 4-place box and plan to use it for both the headlights and the fan.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

First. how far does the 1990 E4OD indicator move? If it has the same travel as the C6, why couldn't you make a new back for it with the correct letters, or maybe just do a circle or oval white area with the black D in it or a circle around the D to make it an OD?

Relay box, I agree with the mystery 4 relay box, however, if you have low and high speed fans, and as the Brits say main and dipped beam, you will have what you need, if you want a Bosch starter relay, well, you need 5 unless you are only going to use a relay on the main beam.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Bill - I'm not sure what you are suggesting on the indicator. Make a new back for the C6 or the E4OD one?

Anyway, the AOD one moves about 1 1/4” from Park to 1st, and I assume the C6 one does as well, while the E4OD one moves about 1 1/2”. So, I may have a problem using the C6 one as the overall travel will probably make it hard to calibrate both ends of the scale.

On the relays, I thought I was still going to have a "later style flat relay" as a starter solenoid on the right fender to which the main feeds connect. I got that from your post here. What am I missing? And, do you have a pic of one of those "later style flat relays"?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Try this again, logged in and it still dumped my post.

I would take good look at the lever travel on both the 1981 and 1990 columns, if they are the same then I would check the diameter of the collar the shifter goes into as something has to account for the extra 1/4" of cable travel.

The later starter relays are more of a pancake design, with the 3 or 4 posts pointing straight in from the fender.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Guys - Bill and I've talked about this in the background, so I'm not stepping on his toes. But I've been looking at commercial places to build the transmission and contacted Midwest Transmission, which is where I got all the parts for the ZF5 build. They have three levels of build, and I'd like your thoughts on which one to go with. All three have 3 year/100K miles of warranty.

1: $2178 This level includes all of the upgrades that Baumann and I documented in my E4OD Upgrades project whiteboard.

2: $2683 Road RipperTM 1000: Towing up to an extra 4,000 lbs (two tons). Engines with added horsepower of up to 100. Hot rods or muscle cars with street tires.

This is the first step to improving your factory-stock transmission. We start by increasing pressure in the transmission for firmer applications of clutches and bands, which provides for a more positive shift. Then we address the pressure after the application of clutches and bands so there is less chance of slipping the clutches. After improving the pressure, we add more clutch plates to the clutch packs. This is a great unit when you’re looking for more than what the factory offers. Some of the specifics:

• Valve body modifications improve the shifts of the transmission and the “apply and release” of the torque converter clutch.
• Pressure adjustments improve the lube circuit that feeds all bushings, washers and geartrain in the transmission to keep them lubricated.
• Increased pressure improves the torque converter charge circuit which ensures that the torque converter stays fully charged with fluid. You won’t lose power during heavy demands or from a wide-open throttle.
• Sprags and rollers are replaced for better holding capacity.
• The pump and pressure regulator are addressed for high flow and good control to ensure that the right amount of fluid gets to everything.
• All bands and clutches are new. Depending on the applications, we use quality Raybestos® or BorgWarner® brands.
• We increase clutch packs by as much as 20 percent for more holding power.

3: $3127 Road RipperTM 2000: Towing 4,000-10,000 lbs. on a fifth wheel (trailer). Engines with added horsepower of 100 to 225. Diesel engines that have been chipped for more power. Street racers

This beefed-up transmission really meets the mark of hard-working vehicles that need way more than what the factory offers. We start by really increasing the pressure in the transmission. This gives firmer application for all of the high-energy clutches and bands we install, like red, blue or even Raybestos® Z-PakTM clutches and Pro SeriesTM bands (depending on what the vehicle will be used for). Then we address the servos and accumulators to match up with the shifts you like. Adding to durability, we replace all rollers and sprags with the maximum-level available element. We address the converter to handle the higher load and improve its durability and efficiency. This is a very tough, hard-working unit. Some of the specifics:

• Complete valve body and separator plate modifications for durability and improvement of shifts.
• Increase base line pressure which gives you better linear line pressure during shifts.
• Improve throttle pressure circuit for a faster and more responsive line pressure boost.
• Resized servo and levers for maximum holding of any bands.
• Use of high-energy clutches and Pro SeriesTM bands.
• Increase of clutch packs by as much as 30 percent for greater holding power.
• Improves the lube circuit which feeds all of the bushings, washers and geartrain in the transmission to keep them lubricated.
• All sprags and rollers are replaced with the best available for increased capacity.
• Only the highest-flow pumps available are used.
• We furnace-braze converters and add new bearings throughout for durability.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

As Tom & Ray used to say, I've apparently "stumped the chumps". No one has an opinion on the level of "build" I should request for the E4OD?

Oh well, I'm still conversing with the people at Midwest about it, and discovered that they have a form they want filled out in order to determine what build they recommend. So, I've filled that out and sent it in.

But, we sort of came to a potential stopping point when I asked for a pan with a drain plug. (It might be silly, but I just got this tranny's pan off w/o spilling more than a quart of the 16 quarts therein, and I don't want to do this again!) Turns out they've had problems drilling and tapping a pan for a plug, so they don't do it. But, they'll install a pan with a drain if I have one.

So, a quick look on-line found that Trick Flow has a pan for about $200. Hmmm, that reminded me of the conversation Tim and I had Monday night about Trick Flow's failure to return my phone calls. Turns out his factory rep is retiring and hasn't been able to return my call. But, Tim did ask him if their Windsor-style Cleveland EFI intake will support my engine. They don't have flow numbers, but Tim is sure it will since I'm looking for low-RPM torque, not horsepower. In fact, with the long runners it should actually help the low-RPM power.

Further, since Tim sells Trick Flow stuff, he offered to order the manifolds and the tranny pan and have it shipped to him. Then he'll pass the pan on to the rebuilder, who is also in MN. And, he'll mock up the manifolds on an engine he has and take some pics.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Ok, I think I may have a better alternative to Midwest Transmissions. I just talked to Charles at Aspen Transmission, in Brandon's hometown of Broken Arrow. I like him and have confidence that he both knows what he is doing as well as will build a transmission that will work for me.

Here are the main points of the discussion:

Warranty: He gives a 2-year warranty. But, he is willing to delay the start of the warranty until I'm ready to fire the truck up. That is a big deal for me as it will be at least two years before I get the truck running, and everyone else I've talked to starts the warranty upon delivery.

Upgrades: We went through the list of upgrades that Baumann recommends and Charles confirmed that he does all of those. In addition there are some that he recommends, and some that he says are optional but that are usually reserved for the diesels and he doesn't think I need.

Pan: He said he'll just stick a stock pan on that has a drain plug.

Finish: The tranny will be natural aluminum, but not painted. He said he's given up on painting them for people as everyone wants a different color. However, it'll be completely clean and ready for paint.

Price: Depending on the options I choose when we detail it out, it'll be between $1800 and $2600.
And, since they are local there will be no shipping.

Brandon - Know anything about them?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Just be sure he gets you the 4WD pan if it will be new, it is deeper.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Yes, he knows it is a 4wd tranny, although I had to remind him a couple of times.

I told him I was willing to buy a Trick Flow, but he prefers the stock one. Fine by me as that saves $200.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Houston, we may have a problem. Here's a pic of Trick Flow's Windsor-style EFI manifold on a Mustang. I've confirmed with Trick Flow that the upper plenum is reversible. However, that makes it say Trick Flow backwards. But, it looks to me like the there may not be enough room for the throttle and the inlet tubing w/o hitting something like the brake master cylinder.

Going to have to get measurements and do some checking on Big Blue.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Give this guy a ring: Steve Cummings 918 855 9129

He is local and is very knowledgeable.

Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)

Gary Lewis

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Administrator

Are you saying you don't like Aspen? And, does this guy give a warranty? I'll give him a call tomorrow.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Bruno2

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

This post was updated on .

I have never heard of Aspen. I am not saying they cant build a tranny strong enough. I believe it is possible for a multitude of builders to do this. Steve has a transmission shop at his house. He also teaches auto tranny at the Vo tech here in Broken Arrow.I had a chance to briefly speak with him when I was up there a couple of weeks ago. I think I would pick his brain at least. The reason I am saying to call him is because he isnt a "smoke and mirror" type of guy like you run into at these interweb tranny shops.He isnt going to try and sell you on the magic of what he does.

I run into this "magic" quite often on some of the diesel forums and FB pages and it makes me a little agitated. Like for instance right now on the 7.3 FB page some vendors are trying to sell hydraulic lines for the High Pressure Oil System on the 7.3 for like 3X what they would cost for a hose shop to make them up. I simply suggested that anybody could go to a hydraulic shop and have them made for about $70 vs paying a vendor $199.00 plus shipping. The vendors countered with their "magical lines" cant be reproduced by a hydraulic hose shop. Which is BS because I am sure they are having them made at a hose shop.

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E4OD For Dad’s Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

An 89/90 Taurus/Sable, shown on the left. It is too big for just the headlights and fans.

A mid-90's F150, with an attached external box. The main box has places for 3 small relays and 3 Bosch relays. The smaller box has places for 6 smaller relays, although only 4 are wired, and 1 Bosch.

The 1995 F450 that Jim parted out, and it has places for 5 Bosch relays.

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

1: $2178 This level includes all of the upgrades that Baumann and I documented in my E4OD Upgrades project whiteboard.

2: $2683 Road RipperTM 1000: Towing up to an extra 4,000 lbs (two tons). Engines with added horsepower of up to 100. Hot rods or muscle cars with street tires.

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Warranty: He gives a 2-year warranty. But, he is willing to delay the start of the warranty until I'm ready to fire the truck up. That is a big deal for me as it will be at least two years before I get the truck running, and everyone else I've talked to starts the warranty upon delivery.

Upgrades: We went through the list of upgrades that Baumann recommends and Charles confirmed that he does all of those. In addition there are some that he recommends, and some that he says are optional but that are usually reserved for the diesels and he doesn't think I need.

Pan: He said he'll just stick a stock pan on that has a drain plug.

Finish: The tranny will be natural aluminum, but not painted. He said he's given up on painting them for people as everyone wants a different color. However, it'll be completely clean and ready for paint.

Price: Depending on the options I choose when we detail it out, it'll be between $1800 and $2600. And, since they are local there will be no shipping.

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Re: E4OD For Dad's Truck

Price: Depending on the options I choose when we detail it out, it'll be between $1800 and $2600.
And, since they are local there will be no shipping.