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"Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

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Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Here are some pics from our adventure yesterday. Turns out it was a '93 E350 so was fairly heavy. But I'll let Steve 'splain all the bits and pieces of it.

But Big Blue and his accoutrements made the job fairly easy. The 12K winch attached to the rear axle seemed to persuade the van to come out of its divots in the ground, which were substantial. And the on-board air allowed us to air up the trailer tires, as well as the air bags on Big Blue, to 60 PSI and that leveled things out nicely. Plus the front hitch made positioning the trailer easy.

As for the ability to pull that load, lets just say that the 460 shrugged off a couple of 2nd gear starts.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Yes, it was a good adventure!
Yes, I got the van.
No, it was not a "96 or 97" like the guy thought it was. I am now hearing that little voice in the back of my head saying, "should've run the VIN!" and I say back to him, "where were you before I bought it?"

I know I could have run the VIN, but the price was so low, it almost doesn't matter. It has a 5.8L with all the trappings of an E-350. E4OD, Dana 61 rear axle, four good 8-lug wheels, air conditioner, trans cooler, etc, etc,... It doesn't leak oil, so that's a pretty good sign.

Looking under, I have found an empty space where the catalytic converter was. Anyone could've crawled in there and took it in the last few years when it was sitting. Also, the battery is gone, but I don't need old batteries anyway.

As for having a roller motor, it is do-able with hand tools and a sharp drill bit. I just have to make sure I get quality lifters and cam, since metallurgy is becoming a lost art among parts suppliers. It may be I just use the twin drop-in roller lifters. Or, in the worst case, I track down another block which is already roller and sell this one off, keeping the goodies I need.

So I have begun with the E-350 (maybe nicknamed "the Heap" on account of its size) by taking the grill off today. Maybe later this afternoon I will drain some fluids to remove trans cooler and radiator...

Does anyone know if there is a market for passenger van seats? I have two of the "narrow" benches for 3 passengers, and one wide back bench for 4. Gary, I do have two of the plastic floor stands with seatbelts loaded, but one looks cracked over, and they may be extra long. I am also willing to part with the D61 axle, if someone can use that. There may be other things, if it's stuff I'm not using. Feel free to message me about it.

Maybe the discovery of the year model has doused my flame a tiny bit, but I'm still excited. For the price, I will have made out like a bandit, and the people I bought it from were so happy to see it go.

Once again, a big thanks to Gary for all his help!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Happy to help, Steve.

As for the sheath, they might be long but let's look them over. Also, how 'bout some pics, like of the seats including the front buckets? (All of my pics above were uploaded with the "Big" setting as some of them came in at about a meg even on the smallest setting.)

Any chance of running the engine w/o rebuilding it? How many miles on it?

By the way, remember that WelderScott can weld anything to anything so might be able to fix the leak on that NP208.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Here are some pictures after grille removal, and some of the seatbelts. They aren't damaged, just one is loose.

And they are 16.5" from floor to tip of buckle.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Thanks. I'll measure the Bronco/pickup ones tomorrow.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Good job all around.

Gary, your trailer continues to earn its keep!
At least the brakes hadn't frozen while the van slept these past few years.

Steve is a couple of steps closer to his powered by Ford Wagoneer and has some parts to offset the purchase of the van.

These things seem to be beloved by Church groups and run for decades because of short funds and the fact they only drive on Sundays.
The PSOM and steering column are definitely in demand, the ECU as well, if it has good Caps.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Thanks, Jim.

Yes, the trailer comes in really handy. But we didn't mention that Steve and I spent an hour clearing leftover stuff from last year's show/swap meet off of it. I'd left all that stuff on as I didn't have a good place, nor the energy, to move it. So the trailer will be the transport for it again this fall.

As for the van, it rolled nicely and once we raised the front of the trailer with the jack to let the bumper clear the trailer it came right on. But maybe one part of why it rolled so easily is that it was parked because the brakes had gone out.

I'm not sure what Steve's plans are, but I think I'd consider firing the engine up and seeing what shape it is in. Perhaps, being a "church van only driven on Sundays" it has little wear and can be used the way it is. That can be determined by changing the oil and getting gas to it, and then running a leak-down test after it has run for a bit. (I know you know that, but I'm outlining it for Steve.)

And it might not be a big loss if he has to put a new tank and fuel delivery module in the van as he's going to need them for the Wagoneer, although maybe not the same tank/FDM if it won't fit.

If the engine seems to be in decent shape he could use it and the speed-density EFI system that is on it, pretty much as it is. We talked yesterday about the probable need to lengthen the wires twixt the PDB and the ECU, but that's not a big deal and will allow him to mount the ECU wherever is handy.

And yes, I think he can sell a bunch of parts and actually make money on this deal.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Clearing out the trailer sounds like WORK!
But the two of you got it done, and got on with the job at hand. Teamwork makes the dream work.

I did notice the exceptional rear overhang but didn't realize that the trailer was tilted to help get the van on.

It certainly would be nice to get an idea of how the 351 runs before pulling it all apart.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

I was WORK (Maynard G. Krebs), but Steve made it much easier. He's a big guy and lifted the business end of the shop crane off all by itself. Then he picked up the T19 and carried it off. And I "let" him carry the totes FULL of books all by himself.

On the trailer, I got to design bits of it myself, and I wanted a significant dovetail to make loading easier. That comes in really handy, and in the few cases like Saturday where the bumper hits you just use the trailer jack to raise the front and lower the rear.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

I agree with the both of you; I could start this heap to see if it has any significant or obvious problems. One being that half of the battery cable departed when the battery did, I imagine. But I have some of that stuff to make it happen temporarily.
It's better to test what you can all together!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

I have a few spare battery cables, and I know a guy with a crimper and terminals if you have to make one.

And we could take the aux battery out of Big Blue if you don't have access to one for starting. Or we could maybe wire directly to BB.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Very good! I do have the Jeep's battery in good condition right now, and I might have enough cable for an attempt. I am going to do some looking this evening. If I can't hike it with my equipment, I'll give a shout.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Today's discoveries:

1. The seatbelt risers actually are cracked apart, but cleanly so that it looks like they are meant to be that way. The plastic tubes are spacious, though. They are pinched at the neck where the buckle protrudes from the plastic, so only one tight spot. Seems like an improved design.

2. There is not very much coolant in the radiator. No obvious damage, but it will warrant a closer look.

3. The cable bundle traveling toward the starter was cut with a tool, about level with the power steering can lid. I suspect the same person who took the cat took the batt. Or if not, they've probably met at the scrap yard. Oh well. Here's what I need to connect in order to try a start:

I believe I know what the biggest wires do. I will have to look into the others re: necessity for starting the motor and cycling the fuel pump.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

I should have added: I took the loom loops loose for the bundle and pulled them down where there's handy access right below the tie rods. No bumper now, so plenty of room for setting a battery.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

Oops, I forgot to measure my sheaths today. Maybe tomorrow.

On the wires, I have the 1996 EVTM and we can use it to figure out what your wires go to. But I only have a little bit of it online, although you can see that at Documentation/Electrical/EVTM/1996 EVTM and then the few sections I have online.

You can use the book and I'm pretty sure you can figure it out, especially since the 460 still was running EEC-IV save for the rare CA-spec version. I can bring it Wed night, or you can come after it twixt now and then.

But looking at the Charging pages the BK/O should be the alternator output. And if the LG wire has a Red stripe it is the circuit from the charge indicator light to the regulator. The Yellow wire probably has a White tracer, so is the sense to the regulator.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

The Bullnose sheaths are 16" long and the aftermarket ones are 15" long. So I'd think the 16 1/2" ones from the van would work nicely in a Bullnose.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Ok, some news:

I hooked up the battery terminal cables to "The Heap," but did not get any power anywhere else. This may be a direct result of the fuse box hanging loosely under the dash, or because of the cut wires there. The ignition switch position makes no difference. No ding-ding, no lights, no nothin'. Bottom line, there was half a hack job on this thing, and now there would be more work to make it right or MacGuyver it than just pulling the engine.

So I did one test: starter crank! I was able to just touch the small red start wire to the terminal. I bumped it once, bumped it twice, then cranked for about 3-4 full revolutions. Since the key doesn't do anything, there was no fuel pump initiation, so no vroom-vroom. It did, however, turn over very smoothly and it sounded 100% normal. At least I know the starter is good! And that the engine is not locked up. All of these things are good signs to go ahead and pull it. Having accomplished all of the testing that I could at present, I will begin to drain it all.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Well, that's a very good sign.

I suppose you'll know a little more about maintenance when you drop the fluids.

Are you looking to sell off any of the interior or chassis?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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