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"Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

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FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

All right; More adventuring.

I got the oil pan off, and had a preliminary look at the connecting rods. Not that my cave-man eyes can tell anything of real value, but it looks to be free of sludge inside. That seems nice.

Note the foreign material in the oil pickup screen...

Perhaps it is some rubber gasket material gone crispy?

And I pulled the balancer and the timing cover. There were only two bolts broken from the water pump, so kind of a big win there. I also removed those once the timing cover was off.

Between these next two photos is the timing chain slack demonstration. Maybe variable cam timing?

And just to show that I got those top two bolts out:

Also, that cam on the outside of the cam gear is consideration for mechanical fuel pump, correct? Is there a need for that? Because it rattles and rings like a bell. If I could delete it without throwing off internal balance, I would. Let me know what you think!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Honestly it looks pretty good!
It's really loose when the chain eats a hole in the housing!
At least you don't have a pickup full of shredded nylon like an earlier truck.

The fuel pump eccentric has nothing to do with balance but you need something to take its place when you go back with a new timing set.
I won't tell you what happens when the retaining bolt bottoms out in the cam before the gear is tight.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

It does look pretty good. But you can check out the crank clearances with Plastigage.

Good job on the bolts. You will need to think about what bolts to go back with to ensure they don't break/seize in future.

As for the chain, 1/2" of slop is said to be the max and I think you have more than that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

I use Loctite PST on all bolts in the water pump and timing case.

It is anaerobic sealant but not like Loctite in the conventional sense.
It is used for stainless fittings and flange bolts in the chemical and petroleum industries.
Prevents galling and leaks up to thousands of pounds, It does not increase breakaway torque.

I can attest it works great it this application.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Yep, PST is now my go-to for water pumps and timing covers. In fact, I use it in a lot of applications.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Very good tip, thanks! I will be looking into Locktite PST!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

This post was updated on .

I was fiddling with the rod journals, and they moved by hand, so I took off the first piston rod cap. It looks like it is all but spun. Here are some pictures:

I hope the pictures do some justice to real life. It looks like the bearings have wear patterns, and I am glad to be replacing them. Edit: I think the pattern looks like corrosion or overheating. Also, I am holding the cap-side bearing of the #1 rod. It looks like it has a "spun" pattern against the cap itself. It is not like the crank journals, which look really slick and pretty. I think the crank looks good. I have not removed the crank yet, but I am thinking of the condition of the crank bearings.

Also, I let one piston fall about 3" and the skirt broke off.

I was so surprised and upset. I think this means I pretty much have to match bores to new pistons. I know the less I have to do, the better, but I may have shot myself in the foot.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

I think what you are seeing is the corrosive effect of water. A wear pattern will be like in the last pic.

As for the piston, it will obviously have to be replaced. But to do this correctly you should have the block bored and then go with oversized pistons. The reason is that the bores will surely be out of round due to wear. Besides, one cylinder had water in it and will likely be etched.

Honestly, I don’t know that this engine will be worth it. My experience with getting engine work done in Tulsa has not been good, nor has Brandon/Bruno2’s. My work was not done correctly and Brandon’s was never done - after years of waiting.

But I have inside mikes if you want to measure the bores and see how worn they are.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Gary Lewis wrote

Honestly, I don’t know that this engine will be worth it...

Yeesh... I hope I don't have to start again. But at least I have some materials that will work to get some forward progress out of The Heap.

I will be checking after a lead on a Ford engine builder in the Tulsa area. If I can just have the thing 030 or 040 over, get some KB's, use my rods and crank, that would be the best case at this point.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

It may clean up at .030 or .040 over, so if you find a good machinist then that will be good. I hope you can.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Just putting this picture here so I don't forget. It's the crank bearings in order. I believe they also show corrosion wear and/or heat damage.

Next is Plastigauge so I can accurately assess the bearings on the crank and rod journals. I know that I want to get this block machined, and I have a few leads on machine shops. After the holiday, they will probably answer phones again, and I will find out timing and pricing. At the worst, I will unwillingly end up joining the reason machine shops go out of business: Getting a crate motor. I don't want to do that, but I also want to drive this thing within my lifetime.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

The only thing better about having your engine machined locally is that it should cost less. But a "crate" engine will come with some kind of warranty, which is good if you aren't a very experienced engine builder or might get bad parts - like a cam or lifters. And a "crate" engine should be much quicker to receive than having one machined.

However, you might have your father check around Winfield and I'll ask my brother & his boys about Ark City. Years ago a classmate of mine ran a machine shop in Ark City and the work was good, cheap, and fast. But he's retired and last I knew no one was doing that there.

And you might ask others on here that are "local", like John/Machspeed in Wagoner. (An engine from Wagoner for a Wagoneer?) Or, perhaps there's someone in Tulsa I've not found?

But I'd go to Scotty The Mad Porter at his machine shop in Tacoma, Washington. However, I don't know that he does 351W's since his forte has been 460's.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

I did ask my dad, and he had looked around recently for his go-devil 1952 jeep to be bored and honed, but his findings led him to get file-your-own ring sets. It stopped the visible smoke from the tailpipe, but he's using his jeep like most people use side-by-side Polaris Rangers or John Deere Gators. So that works for intermittent farm use, and no roads.

But we're going to be calling around. Your connections are appreciated also! If it's in OK, KS, MO, or AR, I think I could see making a trip for that purpose. Well, 2 trips; one to drop it and one to pick it up. I won't have failed in this until after Memorial day when I can call these places. Still hopeful!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Bruce moose4x4

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

There is a reputable Machine shop in Springfield Mo I have been using for over 30 years. Does all my machine work.

Motor Machine Shop
706 E Commercial ST
Springfield, MO 65803
417-865-0653

Ask for Mike Pickens, Tell him Bruce sent you. It won't do any good on a discount price. LOL. But I totally trust him and his judgment. If you happen to bring it to him, let me know I work second shift and I could meet you up there some morning.

As far as Crate motor goes. We can't get remaned engines through work here. There is a terrible parts shortage on internal engine parts. Haven't checked availability on a crate engine though. Go to summit racing and search for Ford 351 Crate Engine and look at all the ones that are not available.

If your building you own engine, Camresearchcorp.com will break in your cam on a machine without it being in the engine. I would have put in a link but work has that site blocked for some reason.

Bruce aka Moose--1978 F250 LWB Flareside, Dana 60's w/ 4:10's, 460, c6

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

Just a note to let anyone following that I am planning a path forward, but I am still in the same spot; I just have run thin on resources, so it would be pointless to continue without being able to pay for goods or services. I have put my project on ice. Not to worry! I will be continuing once some debts are paid off. In the meantime, I am doing some side jobs to raise project money.

I am going to be gauging the cylinder bores to verify even wear and check the need for re-boring them, and if they don't need bored, I will hone them and re-ring pistons. I have a line on some pistons that are not broken like the ones I accidentally dropped while removing them from my engine...

Body work will be continuing some time this fall and winter. I am looking to borrow a rotisserie in order to tackle the frame, floor, and body mounts.

More to come! I haven't given up!

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

FoxFord33

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Update:

I have purchased a 98 explorer with a 5.0 and 4r70w for the transmission for use in my Wagoneer. The engine might go into my 97 T-bird as a fun project. The 4wd Trans will be a smaller option for my project, and I am working to remove the parts now.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

Good score!
That's a desirable vehicle!

If you're looking to go through the tranny, I saw a whole bunch of NOS OEM and upgraded parts on the uhaultruckpartsonline eBay store when I was looking for NOS flywheel bolts for Jonathan.

They do combined shipping and get it out that day.
Can't say enough about them!
If you do go that way, be sure to leave vendor feedback in the marketplace.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: "Powered by Ford" Grand Wagoneer...

Administrator

In reply to this post by FoxFord33

I'm confused. That thing on the trailer said Mercury. Did I miss another fun night?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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