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I can't say I blame you. I am probably one of the few people who even knew what the engine was let alone worked on one. Good luck in your search!

Rusty, I have had excellent results with AutoNation Ford https://parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com/ You might try them. They were formerly Tousley Ford. Went through a royal PITA with the battery tray for the 2009 Flex, Ford's illustrations show only the mid 2009 and up parts and even with the VIN it didn't get caught. Back and forth messages with the parts manager and got it resolved, wrong parts returned for full credit. Good luck with it!

Jim, there is a spare Taurus one in the trunk of the Lincoln Continental sitting at Pete's in Newport News that I should grab next time I am over there and can get to it.

The one I used for years is gone, Keen's in Smithfield VA, the owner popped up on Facebook a while back, but he had long since closed the machine shop. The place in Newport News is another older shop, Dunkum's, Billy Dunkum is gone, the current owners are great though. Junior Keen and his father both worked for Billy Dunkum when the shop was way downtown. Keen's did the Cobra 289 from my Shelby after the drain plug came out on I64 with a friend driving. I had a set of .030 over TRW Powerforged pistons I had purchased when a new parts warehouse was opening near us. The owner needed a certain volume of initial stock and told us (Preston) among others to order what we would like at cost + 10%. They went in the 289. Junior said that when he went to balance things, once he equalized the pistons, everything else was already done. That is also when I found the Ford VIN stamped upside down on the right side of the block.

Not at the moment, maybe when I get the Turbo head in and start working on the oil drain issue. I do have one problem though, the Venolia pistons of course came with pins and retainers and the seller threw in a set of late turbo rods which have full floating wrist pins. The problem, Chrysler 2.5L wrist pin size is 0.9009" and rod bushing is 0.9145", Venolia pins are 0.927". Slight problem getting them to fit. Venolia is of course out of business so no help there. As near as I can measure the actual bore diameter on the rods (outside of the bushing area) it is 0.943" meaning I only have .016" left if I could ream or hone the bores. Bushings appear to be copper on a steel backing. If the bushings are not worn, they seem to be clearanced for 0.0136" using the stock pins. I may end up calling a place I know in Newport News and see if they have any ideas. As was mentioned there are no automotive machine shops here on Virginia's appendix.

Jim, I'm surprised it has a Sterling, all the information I have on C&C trucks points to the Dana 60 being in the back.

First I did some CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) on the head gasket differences as seen here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Concerning-Conversation-With-DB-Electrical-tp120818p121030.html This was using the three different head gaskets, Fel-Pro 9296 PT for the 2.5L which is the cylinder block, 9924 PT which is the 1995 - 2001 2.4L head which is the one i was sold as being for the SRT 4 Neon engine and finally 26202 PT which is for the 2003-2009 2.4L turbo engine and matches the head coming from Memphis with some bent valves. All the heads use the same bolt pattern and 11 mm bolts, differences are in the oil supply and drain locations. The 2.5L head is similar to a 300 in the fact that both manifolds are on the same side of the head. As a result, the top of the head slants toward the front and all three of the drain holes and a smaller one are on the front near the front three middle head bolts. The oil feed is through a restrictor and up the left front head bolt hole to the oil gallery next to the lash adjusters that feeds them and the 5 cam bearings with squirt slits to lube the cam lobes and followers. The 2.4L head is similar, but, there are three drain holes on the back side of the head behind the three rear center bolts. there is one in front very close to the location of one of the block's drains. Oil supply is similar, through a restrictor then up the left rear head bolt hole as that will solve a major problem and drill the cross passage at the flywheel end of the head through to it and possibly enlarge the bolt hole slightly. The oil goes through two parallel galleries next to the lash adjusters and up to the 10 cam bearings. Now, the more interesting issue, head alignment. The 2.5L block has two small solid dowels at the ends to align the head to the block and ensure that the cam is parallel to the crank, on the 2.4L engine the right rear and left front bolt holes have a 15 mm counter bore for hollow dowels which I (a) haven't found any so (b) took a 5/8" one and made a 15 mm one I can cut to length. This was done by removing a .094" wide strip then filing the edges, using a small hose clamp to compress it and then a pair of vice grips to reshape it to a mostly round shape. The .094" was cut using a hacksaw blade and the filing was done with something Rusty will appreciate, these: I have ordered a 15 mm drill from Amazon and have a large Portomag portable drill press that uses a big electromagnet to mount it to a ferrous piece. That way I can secure it and control the depth I relieve for the hollow dowels. The only concern is the left front dowel location is also the oil feed from the 2.5L block so I will need to make sure I have adequate flow. Most of the drains end up as external lines back into the oil pan. I am thinking about using the front center oil drain as a location to pull my PCV valve from so it will create a flow from the head into the oil pan.

Several things (a) if you are planning on pulling the engine, do it, a lot of what you want to do becomes a lot easier with it out. (b) do not try to support that beast on one of the harbor freight stands, it is long and heavy so has a lot of leverage on that skimpy Chinese upright post. © remove the hood if you pull the engine. Now onto some other items. You can get the pan off without completely removing the engine, but it takes some doing. If you aren't draining the cooling system at this time, take the upper radiator mounting bolts out but leave the fan and fan shroud in place. when the engine is lifted they will come up with it. The exhaust pipes have to come off, originally they had joints in them where on a short wheelbase truck the muffler attached to the exhaust pipes, on longer wheelbase trucks like Darth, there were extensions, in Darth's case 35" long to connect the system together. Once you have the preliminaries done you need to remove the 4 large nuts holding the mounts to the perches. After that, find a suitable jack and block to put under the balancer and start lifting. Raise the engine until it comes up against the floor and firewall. With a manual transmission you will probably want to remove the tunnel cover so you can get the engine high enough and not damage anything. Once you have it up as far as it will go, find some decent size wood blocks and place them between the exhaust manifolds and frame so you can remove the motor mounts from the adapter plates. Now you are ready to tackle the pan. Remove the dipstick tube (5/8" gland nut at the pan and a 9/16" nut on one of the exhaust manifold studs. Remove the bolts holding the pan on and lower it until it stops between the oil pump and frame. Reach over the edge of the pan and remove the nut from the main cap stud that holds the pickup tube. Remove the two bolts holding the oil pump and lower it into the pan. You should now be able to get the pan out, if it hasn't already attacked you. As most manuals say "reassembly is the reverse of disassembly". Here is a picture showing how the mounts sit installed on the engine: Note the heat shield on the left side, it is rather critical to the motor mount lasting as the manifolds get red hot on the highway.

I second everything Jim said. The 1987 460 was a carryover from 1986 as the EFI system wasn't ready (possibly not emission certified). Be glad because it means no catalytic converter to deal with. The original system on those had enough small vacuum lines to drive you crazy. Most had two air pumps and both external and internal delivery of the air. Here is an (at the time) unmolested 1986 460: You can see part of the congestion undrhood.

I agree, if it had been cheaper I would have just done it to have them and shared them with you. Found an engine manual for $24.99: https://mypowermanual.com/shop/detroit-diesel/detroit-8-2l-fuel-pincher-diesel-engine-service-manual/ I am still drawing a blank on the transmission however, all I am coming up with are 4 - 6 speeds.

But this system is not that big and other times I have charged it it took the cans. This time just seams strange the way it is charging? I do have 2 more small cans and some still left in the 2 that I used that I will have to heat to get the rest out. At first I thought it was the gauge set that I was using to add the first can through and why the 2nd can I used a short hose that hooks to the can and has a gauge with colors, no psi readings. I forget when it would go into the red, if when adding or resting? But what you say I wonder if the 134a to R12 fitting adapter could be the issue? If it was plugged / blocking like you say then the cans would not be pulled into the system like it should. Then again the gauge set was getting readings so I would think it is ok. Why do you think the high side stayed at 155 psi but the low side changed with RPM 11@1200 rpm / 20@800 rpm? Dave ---- Usually with that big a difference something is restricting the flow, but, if you are still getting gas through to the orifice tube it can give strange results. Does your system have one of the quick connect fittings in the liquid line from the condenser? I have seen these come apart internally and partially block the line.

Guys, before everything went to computers, most companies heat ranges were logical, higher numbers meant hotter plugs. For example F9Y was the champion number for most high performance Fords, F11Y for lower performance and F14Y for the six cylinder engines. The first letter was manufacturer, H was Hudson, F Ford, J for most GM, N for Nash and each generally had a definite difference. One interesting example, my old Onan gensets take H10 plugs. NGK and I believe a couple of others use inverted numbers, where the higher numbers are colder rather than hotter. On your truck or Darth, the OEM plug was a Motorcraft ASF42C ASF = 14mm tapered seat 4 = heat range 2 = projected tip and C = copper electrode. P would = platinum electrode. I would, using Motorcraft, go to an ASF32C. As for platinum plugs, the issue I ran into (and my son Matt also) was Bosch platinum plugs causing erratic misfires in the EFI 302s. You can use whatever type sparking plugs you wish, even Lodge. We used to sell Holley plugs, that were made by Hitachi for Holley, just stay away from gimmick plugs.

I have had the rubber seals where the hoses attach to the ports actually block the flow either due to swelling or squashing when attached. Darn near drove me crazy till I figured it out.

Ok, after taking several looks at the plugs and the resistance readings on the wires I have the following thoughts. Plugs, several of them look borderline too hot or lean (blued electrodes). Since the EFI system is adjusting the mixture on each bank, they shouldn't be too lean. I would say one step colder plugs than what you are running. Plug wires, the old rule of thumb on resistance wires was 1000 ohms to the inch is the nominal resistance. This means for a 20" wire length, 20K. Less than that is not a problem, more indicates a wire breaking down internally. For your Mopar #7 wire 84K. I would do an after dark check, a slight "halo" around the wires is normal, arcs to valve covers, fuel rails etc are an issue, also Ford recommended that # 7 & 8 not be run side by side, if you remember on the carbureted engine plug wire routing on the left side was 5768 for the 460, the older small Windsors were 7568 on their routing. This is done to prevent cross firing.

I suspect that that is a Toroflow Detroit Diesel. I worked on them in the 60s at Superior GMC in Norfolk VA. I think I remember them having a Bosch style injection pump. 8.2L, is it a 6 or V8? Thought would be swap in a Cat as most of those bigger Diesels used an SAE standardized clutch housing and mounting system. At least it isn't a Perkins in it. A 3 speed automatic doesn't sound completely right to me, I would have expected an Allison, usually 6 speed beast, normally uses the top 4 and has a lock up converter. Here is a link to manuals on it: https://barringtondieselclub.co.za/detroit/8.2-liter-detroit-diesel.html

If they are in firing order, which they should be, you have some extremely lean cylinders or some questionable spark plugs. The sequence didn't repeat exactly as the 4th trace (the one with the diamond) should have also shown up as the 12th trace, but we didn't get there on that screen grab. The second cyl in sequence (should be #5) shows up as a high spike on the second cycle. At Preston, I would have showed it to my customer and recommended new plugs, or if they were new, checking the gap. I think it is time to read the plugs sir.

Gary, now do you understand why I took those rubber air deflectors and bottom cover from that later F150 and installed them on Darth? The idea is to keep to hot air from behind the radiator from coming back around to the front side. Since there really isn't much area for it to exit back and out with the 460, it curls back underneath and right back through the radiator. Moving even at a low speed helps immensely, but sitting in traffic that isn't going to happen which is why I am trying to block the re circulation of the heated air from the radiator. A possible thought, but I would want to have a spare set of inner fenders, would be to provide an outlet for the air forward of the engine block on each side. This would put the air going outside of the frame and making it less likely to return through the radiator.

Concept looks good, From what I remember the fans are on both ends of the rotor and the primary intake is through the front of the case. The diodes and regulator are on the back of the alternator where there doesn't seem to be much air circulation. A thought, unfortunately it will add some more current load to the alternator. On the first run of EFI 300s Ford found that the heat soak on the fuel rail was enough to boil the gas when sitting hot and shut off. The quick fix was a small blower and a duct with holes in it to blow air over the fuel injectors. It was controlled by a thermal switch on the fuel rail that closes a relay that has power at all times so that when the thermal switch closes the fan is turned on and air is blown across the injectors. Fan is only fused at 15 amps so it isn't a big draw. Two thoughts on it (a) if you duct the air to the back side of the alternator, the wires can be run down a piece of defroster hose, like Mercedes did, (b) the fan can draw air from a cooler area, like the cowl or even under a front fender like Ford did with the MEL engines. From the cowl would push cooler air through the alternator when driving even if the fan weren't running.

What I was doing is looking at where the various water and oil passages are in relation to the block and head. Sort of like putting a pair of 351C heads on a Windsor block. The bolt holes are all there in the right places, but the water flow is way different. One of the initial issues is head alignment to the block, being an OHC setup, the head has to be positioned so the cams are parallel to the crank or the drive belt will try to "walk" one way or the other on the cam sprockets. On the 2.2 & 2.5L this is done with 2 small dowels one at each end on the head centered front to rear on the block. The flywheel end hole is a snug fit in the head, the belt end has a small slot allowing for tolerances and the different expansion rates of aluminum and cast iron. On the 2.4L the dowels are hollow and are installed like Ford does, around 2 of the head bolt holes, left front and right rear. Keep those locations in mind. In my case I also have oil supply as the engines are OHC, not pushrod and oil drains back into the crankcase so the head doesn't fill up with oil. First obvious issue is the oil supply location, on the SOHC 2.2 & 2.5L the oil feed to the head, after passing through a restrictor comes to the top of the block near the left front head bolt and goes up past the bolt to the gallery in the head. This runs the full length of the head under the lash adjuster bores and has 5 small passages to the cam bearing towers. On slider cams (non roller followers) there are squirt holes at the cam bearings to spray oil on the cam lobes and followers, the roller cams just depend on the oil thrown off the cam. On the 2.0L and 2.4L the oil feed to the head comes up near the left rear bolt hole, then again through a restrictor and up to a cross passage at the "rear" of the head. This cross passage connects both side oil galleries, one passing down each side of the head with the lash adjusters in it and feeds to all 5 of each camshaft's bearings. There is the first problem, the oil feed is moved to the back side of the engine from the front side. If I can get a clear feed into the left front bolt hole, extending the cross passage to that hole should be no problem. Now comes the other issue, getting this oil back down to the oil pan. The SOHC head used on the 2.2 & 2.5L has a slanted surface as all the ports go out the to the back side of the head and there are 3 large holes in the front that go down into the crankcase for oil drains. On the DOHC head, there is a floor between the cam, lash adjusters and followers, there are 4 oil drain holes, 3 on the back side behind the 3 center rear head bolts and 1 on the front slightly to the left of the 4th bolt from the belt end of the head. One of the issues is the location of the drain holes. The front hole in the DOHC head is close to the furthest left hole in the front side of the block, but the primary drains do not exist in the 2.2 nor 2.5L blocks. If the holes are exposed to where a piece of tubing can be pressed into the head and a suitable drain to the crankcase made. A lot of these "hybrid" 16 valve conversions end up with one or more drain lines off the ends of the central floor. The back one isn't too bad, but a front one has to clear the timing belt. Now onto the ignition, the 2.2 & 2.5L engines, with the exception of the rare turbo III DOHC engines use a distributor that contains a pair of Hall effect pickups and a shutter similar to the Ford TFI distributor. Ford uses one narrow vane to reference #1 cylinder, Chrysler uses a vane with a hole in it giving a double pulse to reference #1. The T III engines use a crank trigger at the flywheel that senses a hole for cylinders 1 & 4 and 2 & 3 the engine computer then uses this and it's frequency to determine where to fire the two coils on the top of the engine, one of the issues with these engines is the lack of a cam sensor and the oil pump drive being at 3/4 crank speed which puts a lot of stress on the intermediate shaft to oil pump drive gears which can fail catastrophically resulting in a destroyed engine. 2.0 and 2.4L engines use a DIS system with two coils but it is triggered by a partial target on the crank and one on the intake cam. The computer takes these signals to determine when to fire the coils. The conversions typically retain the distributor and run the plug wires up through the intake manifold between number 2 & 3 runners. I may try to do something similar to the DIS system if I can figure or find out a good way to trigger the system. I do have a Ford 35 & 1 trigger wheel along with the cam sensor for the head.

Just for the heck of it, I looked at the alternator for the Flex. It has axial mounts like a 3G for a 460 or Taurus, but would need the rear case clocked 120° to put the terminals in an accessible position, pulley takes a 6 rib polygroove belt same as the existing ones, just looks like a smaller pulley. The ears are not 180° apart though. Issue would be whether there is either a way to "cheat" the regulator or used the EEC-V to control it. I have done that sort of CAD work also. Here is a current version, head gasket comparison for Chrysler 4 cyl engines which fortunately use the same size (11 mm) fasteners and pattern. Notes: B = bolt hole OS = oil supply OD = oil drain W = small water passages arrow is toward the "front" of the engine For the red gasket outline, that one matches the block and manifolds are like a 300 and both on the back side. Green and blue are DOHC cross flow, intake in front exhaust on the back.

Yes, Jim you are correct. You need the same wire the thermocouple is made from and you need the proper plug sets (made with the same metals) for extensions. Somewhere in here, I have a pair of thermocouple readouts that were "surplus" before I retired. The reason I mentioned using an infrared sensor to Rusty, they are great for measuring temperatures on objects, in his case a generator regulator as Ford's were temperature compensated.

Yep and for me for my '56 its a pain trying to find all those specific tools such as the temperature probe for the regulator. But eventually I think I will find one popping up on ebay like I found a set of 5 NOS stainless steel beauty rings after about four years. But on the talk of the modern alternators, I know the real modern ones dont sense voltage and charge, they are excited by the computer itself to maintain voltage. Some have also gone so far to use a clutch on the alternator pulley where they will actually disconnect the alternator from the pulley once the battery is charged up. With that kind of operation, I would have thought the 3G`s would have been varying amperage output but maintaining voltage to the regulator preset. It looks like what's been posted that the 3G still operates like the old temperature compensated voltage regulators from 50 years ago and vary the voltage to vary the amperage. Going to be fun to see how my 3G does with its soft start regulator with its 14.6 volt set point and if it actually varies like other 3G regulators or not. You might look for an infrared thermometer, they are pretty accurate and work well on a black target. We used them at the shipyard for all sorts of things.

Thats the same with the Generators with the external regulator. My '56 Ford shop manual talks about having a temperature probe that snaps to the voltage regulator cover to measure voltage regulator temperature which you set to spec based off temperature to calibrate it as it is designed to vary voltage/amperage based off temperature to prevent boiling the water in the battery by putting too much voltage/amperage to the battery. Maybe this will help, this is from the charging system section out of my '56 Ford shop manual and it goes into detail about temperature compensation for the voltage regulator. It also has a chart with ambient air temp and voltage output. I dont know how well it will mesh with the specs for the 3G but it might help give an idea since I doubt Ford would have moved too far off of these settings. I would have expected with more modern alternators like the 3G that they would have maintained volage but only vary the amperage based off regulator temperature to prevent the boiling of the water in the battery. But I guess Ford couldnt get it to work just varying the amperage alone and has the voltage reduce as well. Which is a shame cause the NOS Motorcraft GR818 regulator I bought to swap to the 3G alternator I get has a voltage set point of 14.6V and I was hopeful that the voltage wouldnt drop below 13.0v since I know with my current 1G alternator when I come to an idle my H4 halogen silver star ultra headlights would dim slightly and my Dealer AC blower motor would slow down slightly. I was hopeful that I wouldnt run into this kind of issue with the 3G upgrade. Guess I will have to give it a go and see what happens. Damn Rusty, It has been so long since I had a vehicle with a dynamo (generator) that I had forgotten about Ford's temperature compensated voltage regulators. Last car I had with one of those was my 1964 Falcon.

I am not sure of the physical size of the ones on the Flexes, but they are pretty potent. I don't know if (a) they can be converted to a standard regulator or (b) if the EEC-V and BE have the capability to control one. The latter would probably be what Gary "needs" for his issue. First to raise the idle speed and second to tell the alternator to increase it's output when a major load is on the electrical system. The output wire I believe said 4 ga at the stud terminal.

Some good points Jim. First, for reference, My 1994 Taurus had a 50 amp fuse feeding a dual input to the relay module on top of the radiator for the single two speed cooling fan. The dual set I have on my konvertible are from a 1999 Countour, they were fed with a 60 amp fuse, I have them currently fed through a 50 amp in the PDC that feeds both the low and high speed relays. The newer Crown Vics (1999) use a 60 amp fuse on their two speed fan. As for batteries, I never had to deal with extreme cold, but I will say at 20° a Diesel with summer weight oil is a bear to start if it will at all. Heat, I had a car that would kill a Diehard in 18 mos from heat. I never could find the heat shield that was supposed to be on the engine side of the battery. Car was a 1963 Oldsmobile Jetfire and the turbocharger inlet pipe came off the front of the right exhaust manifold, went up, turned left over the valve cover, then back into the turbine side of the Garrett turbocharger. The vertical portion was maybe 4" from the battery that sat on a 45° angle in the right front corner of the engine compartment.