Gary Lewis

The MPC shows that all automatic transmissions hooked to a 302 out through 1989, which is as far as the catalog goes, used a D2AZ 6379-B which is 7/16"-20 x 23/32".

I'll see what I can find in the catalog...

Thought of another way to look at it. With my MPG tune we went into open loop for a total of 22.2 seconds climbing the hill. But with Bill's spark table we were only in open loop for 8.4 seconds. Just 36% of the time. Having said that, open loop isn't the end of the world. Now that I have that table tuned a bit we don't go immediately to 12.35. Instead we hit an intermediate 13.15 and then go to 12.35 if that doesn't get the job done. But it usually does.

Yippee! But why not post the pics?

Well, I'm not 100% sure what I found. But I'll try to explain and y'all can tell me what you think. Both runs were on the same stretch of highway at 64 MPH as shown by the GPS with the truck on speed control for a mile before the bit I'll show you. And that bit is the steepest part of the hill where the AFR has been going to 12.35 for about 20 seconds. And then at the top of the hill I turned around and did a WOT run to 4000+ in both 2nd and 3rd. The first run was with my "MPG Tune" and the second with that tune + Bill's MBT (Max Brake Torque) Spark table. And here are some findings: MPG Tune MPG + Bill's Comments Max Advance 35.5 35.5 Didn't seem to make a difference here Time off max adv on hill 42.9 sec 41.4 sec This was on the steep part of the hill Avg AFR on hill 14.1 14.4 Averaged during time spark below 35.0 Max advance during WOT 29 29 Between 3800-3900 in third gear in both cases The first chart below has the data from the "MPG tune" while the 2nd one has the data after adding Bill's timing table. And both are for essentially the same time and on the same section of road. In the first one the commanded AFR, the white line, first goes down to 12.35 abruptly, then comes back into the 13's, then into closed-loop with the saw-toothed line, back down into the 13's, and then into closed-loop. But on the 2nd chart it comes back into closed-loop twice and for longer times, which easily explains the higher AFR average. But, the spark is essentially the same, with the lowest line being 21 degrees and the one a notch up being 22 degrees. And the highest line is 35.5 degrees. So I don't know why the truck performed a bit better with Bill's timing. But it did, and I could tell the difference.

And, on one of my WOT pulls total timing, known as SAFTOT, was at 27.5 degrees at 3000 RPM with 84% load and 12.28 AFR on the wide-band, while the ECU was calling for 12.35:1. So the other tables are apparently being used in the calculation. And I'm sure that Bill's other tables are different than mine, so it is really difficult to figure out who is doing what to whom. Given that, I'm going to see if I can create a spreadsheet that will have a place for each of the many Spark tables and then do the calculation to see if I can figure out what #'s to change to get good timing. This is an exercise in futility! And there are several reasons I say that. One of the reasons is that what BE calls the parameters in the comments isn't what they call it in the tables, so it is hard to find things. Another is that the calcs use live parameters, like AFR, RPM, LOAD, and even barometric pressure, so you can't just run a calc from the tables. You have to go to a data log and find the live data and then go to the tables and use that data to interpolate between values. For instance, my RPM was 3066 but the table shows 2800 and 3500, so I had to find the what the advance would be there. And the AFR had to be calculated as well. But then I realized that I didn't even log barometric pressure. Last, there are tables after tables after tables. But it looks like there are two main sets - the ones base on altitude and those based on max brake torque. And I don't know which is used when. So here's the plan, Stan. I have a tune I created that leans the AFR a bit, both in closed loop awa open loop. So I'm going to write it in and go for a run. Then I'm going to use Bill's MBT Spark table, which has 3 degrees more advance across the board, and write it in and go for another run. Hopefully I won't have any pinging. And I'll check the logs to see that I do have 3 degrees more advance, which will tell me I'm on the right trail. So if I want more I'll know what table to use.

Jeff - Glad to see you are ok. But sorry for those who’ve lost property and/or loved ones.

Good. Now back to my spreadsheeting...

Is this it, Bill? Documentation/Fasteners & Illustratons/FENDERS AND APRONS

Ok, I think I now have a good handle on the AFR tables and have a tune that, hopefully, will work well in that area. And I have gotten the check engine light off. So at this point I have two more things to tackle: Idle RPM: I have the high surge when the engine is started cold, and then it never gets down to the 648 RPM that I've dialed in for idle when the engine is fully warm. But I've taken another stab at that by reducing the #'s in the Idle Air Adder For ECT table and we'll see how that goes later today. Timing: I really don't think that there's enough timing dialed in. I had the initial set at 13 degrees but Ben asked me to set it back to the stock 10 so that all the numbers in the tables work as they are supposed to work. But that left me down 3 degrees from when we got the 13.6 MPG, and Ben only added back 1 degree at light load/low RPM and 1/2 degree at heavy load/high RPM via the Spark Borderline Knock Threshold table. So last night I sent Scotty a note and asked what he thought. He quickly responded with "I assume your WOT tables go to max of about 36 degrees at 3000 ish?" as well as "Each vehicle is going to be a bit different based on weight, gearing and tire size. Tune based on your O2 sensor reading vs the engine telling you it is happy. Not some arbitrary final numbers." But, in BE there's no such thing as a "WOT table" for spark. There's the MBT (Max Brake Torque) Spark table, and mine is shown on top and Bill's below in the screen shot. So I'm down 3 degrees across the board from Bill - according to that table. HOWEVER, BE says: And, on one of my WOT pulls total timing, known as SAFTOT, was at 27.5 degrees at 3000 RPM with 84% load and 12.28 AFR on the wide-band, while the ECU was calling for 12.35:1. So the other tables are apparently being used in the calculation. And I'm sure that Bill's other tables are different than mine, so it is really difficult to figure out who is doing what to whom. Given that, I'm going to see if I can create a spreadsheet that will have a place for each of the many Spark tables and then do the calculation to see if I can figure out what #'s to change to get good timing.

That's a really nice Bronco!

Welcome! Glad you joined. I've moved your post out from the previous guy's thread into a thread of your own. And I changed the title of my reply so it doesn't look like a reply to his thread. That way you both have your own introduction threads. Anyway, tell us about you. Pics of your truck? Where you live? (We have a map at Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu and can add you with a city/state.)

That’s what I thought. So IF you have a problem you have a fairly simple solution. 👍

That is a HUGE difference! And the angles look good, at least the front ones do. But if you have problems with the rear shaft can you change the pinion angle fairly easily?

LOL! I'll quickly forget what LOBO stands for, but it is cool nonetheless.

I don't know the answer to the question, but I think I'd determine the maximum depth it can be and put it at 1/2 that when the truck is sitting on the ground. Then I'd lift the truck up and see where that puts it to make sure there's plenty of engagement - although you shouldn't be transmitting much power when at full droop. And then assume that the distance it moves from full droop to sitting on the ground is what it would do in full compression and see if there is enough range of movement for that.

Well, the truck show is a given, so you'd best get cracking on the list. :nabble_smiley_wink:I think you can knock the key/switch problem out pretty easily in an afternoon - assuming there's nothing more seriously wrong than a bad switch. The other stuff can be done a couple at a time on an evening or Saturday. You'll get there with time to spare.

I know it gets really hot under the hood. And since some of the stuff I plan to do is at low speeds, I think having the inlet tract insulated has got to help.

Those are good tips! Thanks for sharing that.

Bill - I was comparing your tune to mine again to see what I might have missed and ran across the table below - Spark ACT Retard. And in the comments you can see that it says to multiply the number shown by the value in the ACT Spark Retard Multiplier Table. However, they used that term rather loosely and it is actually the Spark Retard Multiplier For ACT, which I've included below. In both tables my values are on top and yours on bottom. And you can see that neither of us have any retard for ACT temps up to 100F, but at that point things differ a bit. However, though the numbers in the first table differ a bit, they don't when you take into account the multiplier. For instance, at 120F I have a -14 and you have a -20 in the first table. But if we assume we are running about 65 MPH on the highway in top gear my multiplier is .3 and yours is .2. So I'd have a subtraction of 4.2 and you have a subtraction of 4.0. So they come out pretty close. Anyway, now I see why I'm insulating the inlet air system. And I wonder how many of the aftermarket EFI systems have this kind of detail?

Sorry for the loss of your tools and parts. Hopefully they will all find their way back home. But what you've done looks very good. Especially that cowl. What screen did you use and how did you hold it to the cowl? As for the rear spring & hanger, I'm not sure I understand what the issue is. I took the rear springs off both Big Blue and Dad's truck and changed out the bushing w/o removing the hanger. Or at least I think I did. So can you help me understand what bushing is the issue? Maybe a pic?

I guess you missed the email you were sent asking you to introduce yourself in the New Members Start Here folder before posting elsewhere. We do ask that because we have the guidelines posted there and it is important that everyone have an opportunity to read them because everyone is held to them. So before you post elsewhere, and before discussing spacers, please assure me you have read the guidelines.

That's a very different system. I think it may be better than the old style, but nothing like the Lube Shuttle. One of the biggest problems I have is grease, or maybe I should say "oil", leaking out of the bottom of the tube. And I don't think this system will fix that.

It looks great! But those wheels look good. So what's the plan, Stan?

That's really interesting! And while my German isn't very good, I was able to understand most of it. Hadn't thought about other countries limiting the amount of HP you can stuff in a vehicle, but it does make sense. And keeping it balanced is a good plan as well. Plus, having the lighting system separate from the propulsion is also a good idea.