Gary Lewis

Ok, here's the improved fuel system wiring. Note that this approach takes the resistance wire out, and eliminates all of the wiring to the '85 fuel pressure relay. Plus, since the inertia switch and the tank selector switch are close it will be more easily done. And this lets you see what has been taken out:

Pretty!

Not bad at all. And someone else thought so as well - it is sold.

Yipes!!!! Maybe, and that's a big MAYBE, for an old case with the latest guts in it. But now, even those aren't but less than half that.

They look good, Ron.

You can see how they work for the earlier trucks here.

Yep, that's an apt description of me.

Oh! I misunderstood Bob's post! He was talking about Relay #2?! Duh! Interesting. I wouldn't ever have thought of that. Might be the answer. Jim - I'm sorry to have been a pain, but I'm really glad I have all this stuff. REALLY glad. As said yesterday, there are things missing on the CA-spec harness, and I'll use parts from the F450 harness. And the alternator. And the polygroove A/C bracket. And the hydroboost booster and pedal. And the Saginaw pump. And the fuel rail instead of Huck's rail. And the ignition module. And the water pump pulley. And I'm sure there are plenty more things that I'm just not remembering. THANKS!

That list is pretty much complete. And given that it's only missing one thing (the lift blocks between the rear springs and rear axle) and has an extra thing (F-250HD and F-350 use the same hubs, at least if it's an F-250 HD with a Dana 50) arguably it had already ended! Oh, I guess you need the longer U-bolts for the taller lift blocks too. And the "F-350" badges for the fenders, but you don't really need those. But otherwise, the parts list is the same. As far as who wants to (expletive deleted) with all of that, it's all bolt-on stuff, and it's a whale of a lot less than what most of us do on our project trucks anyway. And in a lot of cases you can't buy just what you want. Before the '99 SuperDuties there were no F-350 SuperCabs except for dualies (and maybe only 2WD, I'm not sure of that). And there were no short box F-350s. Yes long boxes are better if you need more room. But for carrying a family and towing a big trailer a crew cab short box is hard to beat. And a short box SuperCab is a really nice package for a lot of use as well, but was only available in F-250 (and F-150 of course). Plus when you are looking at 22+ year old trucks, a lot of the time you have to take what you can find. Even if you are looking for a long box regular cab you might find a rust-free F-250HD before you find a good F-350. Now personally I kind of like the leaf-sprung TTB and I have no plans to do a solid axle swap on my truck ('97 crew cab short bed). It rides WAY better than the '85 F-250HD I had, and can't be much worse than an F-350 (likely not significant). And I really don't want the ~2" lift that a Dana 60 swap provides (my wife and my 86 year old dad have enough trouble getting in it now). But there are good arguments for a Dana 60 swap, so if someone found the right F-250, it's not that hard to find a clapped out F-350 to provide the rest of the parts needed if you want that F-250 to have a solid axle. Well said, Bob. But I was holding my breath when you got into the TTB vs D60. I was sure glad you said that your '97 "rides WAY better than the '85 F-250HD".

Will do. If these are knock-your-socks-off bright I may be in the market.

Welcome!! Glad you joined. Pittsburg! That's where I bought my Super Bee and drove it back to SE PA. But, we moved to Okiehoma since then. Anyway, we have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and I'd be happy to add you to it. But, another Flareside!? Jim suggested we change the name of the forum to FOG. Seriously though, that looks like a fun project. Hope you'll start a thread in the main section to document your progress.

Sorry, I'm not taking the time to look over Gary's schematics, so this is probably completely off base... From what I gather the horn relay on early Broncos has three wires to it. One goes to (or comes from) a power source, one goes to the horn and one goes to the horn button. I haven't looked at a schematic for it, or looked at mine at all. But that would make sense if they are using the same always-hot wire to "trigger" and power the relay, but are using the horn button to switch the relay's ground. In other words, when the relay isn't grounded (you aren't pushing the horn button) the relay coil is getting power, but with no ground it doesn't turn on so the relay is open and the horn doesn't get power. When you hit the horn button the relay coil is grounded so it switches on and the horn gets power, with the same wire providing the power to both the relay coil and the horn. In the very likely case that this wasn't at all helpful, I apologize for the interruption. Jim - Yes, I do have the 450's harness, but Bill has assured me that the 85 & 86 tank wiring is the same. (However, he hadn't told me about the resistance wire, so I'd better check the rest of it. ) Sorry about all the stuff you sent. But it is going to get put to good use. Bob - Thanks, but I'm keeping the Bullnose horn system and wiring. And Big Blue's horn worked when I pulled him apart, so hopefully it will when it goes back together. Basically I'm trying to keep as much of the Bullnose wiring as I can in order to make this as simple as possible. So horn and the associated speed control, radio, HVAC, lighting, gauges, trailering package, etc will stay Bullnose and the engine controls will be '96. However, there are things that the engine control system needs, like to know when the engine is cranking. And, it needs to tell the fuel system when to run the pump. So there are interfaces. But thanks anyway.

True, the driveshaft(s) are different. I forgot that. Double-cardan up front. But, the pitman arm, panhard bar and mount, sway bar, hubs, springs, etc should be part of a D60 installation. In fact, the front driveshaft should be as well. So, effectively Big Blue will be an F350 when I'm done.

Can an admin put other admins in time out? But good point on the resistance wire. I wondered about that but forgot to follow up. I'll have to redraw that diagram to bypass it. And, I will check out the rest of the circuitry, including the fuses and wire sizes. Thanks! As for the relays, I just happened to have that box and though I might as well use the bigger relay. And, Jim is bringing his PMGR in with a 40A Bosch, so we do realize it can be done. Anyway, thanks for the tip on the wiring.

You guys do realize that there's very little difference between an F250HD and an F350 if you change the front axle. Right? Take a look at the frame spec's, below. As for rear springs, Big Blue has the exact same springs as Darth. And look at the rear axles - belower. It frequently says F250/350. So, what is the difference, other than the front axle? I seek to understand.

I didn't look in the oven, but you may be onto something. I may have PC'd them and then put them in the bag with the other PC'd but unused parts. (I know that's not what you meant. ) As for building my own computer, in a way I did on the one that failed. I added a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. But, I just saw on TV an advert for a custom computer-building outfit that is between me and Best Buy. So I'll stop there tomorrow. The requirements are a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. Doesn't have to be blindingly fast, but does need to have adequate memory. As for how clean the shop is, you've been mislead. The blast cabinet creates a fine dust that escapes the dust collector and gets everywhere. So it would be helpful to have some kind of filtering on the computer. But this one ran for many years with no problems. In fact, it runs Win 8.1 and that was released Oct 17th, 2013, so it is probably seven years old. I wonder if the dust is why it suddenly shuts down?

But if you're using the same wire to trigger and power the relay, what is it's purpose? Convention has 85 trigger and 86 ground. So 85 pulls 87 low? I don't know, Jim. Makes no sense to me. I tried to figure out how it could be a latching relay, but failed. But, let's talk about what I did today toward assembling Big Blue. Very little. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how that relay box is wired, only to realize that w/o fuses it won't work. So I'm back to fleshing out Plan A - using a fender-mounted starter relay, no blower motor relay, and the headlight relays in the PDB. Which means I'll have to populate the 5th relay position. And I'll use the 30A auto-resetting breaker I have from another Ford PDB to replace a fuse to power the headlights. Power to the right headlights will run across the radiator support. Given that, we are back to an easy interface - the fuselinks, save for Fuselink S to the inertia switch, will connect to the battery terminal on the starter relay. And, speaking of that, the ECU wants to know when the engine is cranking. So I'll do that via the red/light blue wire that's already in the harness crossing the radiator support. It will get connected to the red/light blue wire in the '85 wiring right there at the starter relay, thereby telling the ECU when the engine is being cranked. And, I tried to update the BIOS on the computer, to no avail. So tomorrow I'm going to Best Buy to see what they have. Last, the seal came in for the spindle so I installed it using the press. Don't know why I didn't do that before as it sure made it easy. Then I installed the seal on the axle and slipped the spindle in place - with plenty of anti-seize 'twixt it and the knuckle to ensure it isn't rusted to it again should I need to take it off. But, I still can't find the nuts that hold the spindles to the knuckles.

My bad! I fixed it. Should have been 87, not 70. And you have a good point about fuses! I need one for the two headlight relays, one for the starter relay, and one for the heater relay. Sure would be nice to find a box with room for those relays and fuses. I think I'll keep looking. But, I have no idea what the purpose is for #2. It had to have been just to provide a signal.

Oh, sorry...I was poking fun at the fact the truck has both the lower chrome moldings, and the wheel arch chrome moldings. They are two separate trim packages and I don't believe were ever available together, although Gary can correct me if I'm wrong. It's like adding chrome trim on top of chrome trim if you get my drift? My preference is for plain bodied trucks, so the trim really stands out to me. Oh, wow! That's .......... bizarre! Yuk! And it wasn't an option, luckily:

I think we may be typing at cross-purposes. I'll use the 70a-capable relay just like you are using the 40a-capable one. No need for a great big cable from it. What did the factory use? 10 gauge? For documentation purposes, here's what I found, with the box being laid out this way. But note that Relay #2 only has small wires to/from its 30/70 terminals. That will have to be changed to use it for any of the uses I have planned. _____________ | | | #2 #1 | | | | #3 Big | ------------------ Big Relay: 30 = R/Bk - large 87 = R/LB - large 85 = Gn/Bk 86 = R/Bk - small (Note: There are two small R/Bk wires) #1 Relay: 30 = Y/Bk - large 87 = Blue - large 85 = R/Pk 86 = R/Bk - small (Note: there are two small R/Bk wires) #2 Relay: 30 = Y/DG - small (Note: this goes to 86 also) 87 = Y/LG - small 85 = DB - small 86 = Y/DG - small (Note: this goes to 30 also) #3 Relay: 30 = Bk/LG - large 87 = Y/LB - large 85 = Bk - small 86 = WPk - small |

Missed the bit about 87 and 87a. Need one relay to put power to that one. Or, one each for high and low. How do you do it?

Yes, it is a BIG blade, on both 30 and 87. And while 40 amps is obviously adequate, there no downside to 70 amps of capacity.

Yes, if you leave the 30A fuse in the box you'll need to use wiring capable of handling that current.

And now for a potential modification of the starter relay plans. I found that I have the box below, which has four relays. Three are the standard Bosch 40 amp relays, but the fourth is a 70 amp job with the big terminals, as shown on the spare relay below the box. So, instead of the fender-mounted starter relay, how 'bout a stud to take the charge cable from the alternator, the battery cable, the fuselinks to the Bullnose wiring, and the cable running across the radiator support to the PDB. And then use this box for two headlight relays, the blower relay, and the 70 amp relay to pull in the starter. The downside is that this box doesn't have any positions for fuses and I need a fuse for the headlights. Having said that I do have an auto-reset circuit breaker that I used previously on the headlight wiring harness and it would work just fine, although not as elegant as a slot in the box. What'cha think?

Actually they should pull less current than the existing incandescent bulbs. So shouldn't need relays.