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Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

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ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Of course I'm replacing the valve seals.... they were toast. And come in the gasket set. The valves didn't have much of any play in the guides. Still nice and tight (but smooth, not dragging).

Didn't know that hot tanking would effect plain babbit bearings... Didn't think hot tanks got that hot. Edit- I'm an idiot. Looked it up, I see. It's the caustic cleaner, not the temperature that causes the issue. I'll have him put in a set of stock sized bearings. Or bring in the cam and have him verify the tolerances.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Yes, you beat me to it. The solution eats the bearings up.

And yes, it costs money to rebuild an engine.

Anyway, glad the guides are good and that you have the seals.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

*Will have the seals. Had to return the gasket kit as it was part of the re-ring kit I bought and had to return (contained rings and main/rod bearings). Rockauto obviously doesn't allow for partial returns for store credit, so I had to return the whole set. Once I have sizes, I'll re-order.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I didn't realize a machine shop would bore to X.

All the guys I use will clean up, get parts in hand, and then machine to final tolerance.
Even if I told Mike "I'm going .060 over" or "-010 on the crank" he'd want those parts in his hands before making chips.
(And with good reason!)

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

It's a chicken and egg sort of problem. We don't know how much it will take to clean up (I'm thinking 0.030" will get it), so I can't order parts until I have a confirmed measurement. Same for the crank- he's going to clean it up, and report back if it's in spec (and if not, how much re-grind will be needed).

He'll be getting the pistons to swap the rods over, so piston size will be verified.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Yup, this is why quality machine work (and especially engine building) is expensive.
Check, and recheck...

Crack check
Clean up the bores
Square deck to crank
Sonic check the cylinder walls
Install cam bearings
Recondition rods
Order pistions/rings/bearings
Confirm sizes
Cut/grind/hone to spec.
Gap rings
Assemble rotating assembly
Build up short block: crank, cam, timing set
Crack check and deck heads
Install guides and ream
Porting... if desired
Clean the head... again
Cut seats
Install valves and lap
Check installed height of springs
Cut or shim to height/pressure
Install heads
Check pushrod length
Order pushrods
Install valve train
Double check piston to valve clearance and squish
Install pumps and tin
Install manifolds

NOW you're close to installing it into something, adding front dress and fuel, wiring it up and priming it for break-in.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Heard from the machinist the other day and ordered parts. Needed bored 0.030" over, crank was in spec (no regrind and/or undersize bearings needed).

Parts should be here Friday, so with any luck I'll have her on the road within the next two weeks. Maybe.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Frank Wyatt

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Good to hear it's coming along. The 300 is a great engine in a truck and I love mine in my truck.

1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci with a fully rebuilt 1968 240 head Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
Home town Mc Kenzie, TN

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

A minor setback may be coming... work is re-mobilizing me next week... at least it's a fixed 8.5-9 hours, so I'll have some time.

Anyway...

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Having issues with installing the new timing cover crank seal.

Old one was in TIGHT... had to partially cut it with a hack saw to allow it to crush and hammer out.

The new one I ordered as an NOS is older than expected... while the baggie has a new-ish dealer sticker, the bag itself is very old with a copyright of 1966

. The part is more of a muesem piece than something I want to use.

Luckily, the gasket kit, despite the notes saying it had no crank or valve seals, came with all of the above. However, the timing seal in question is too big... cannot get it to start straight in the hole with a seal driver. Maybe 5-10 thousanths oversized relative to my timing cover bore. Is this normal (and I'm doing something wrong), or do I need to get another seal?

Yes, I did lightly heat the cover with a torch... but not much since I don't want to warp or melt the aluminum.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I wish I knew the answer to your question. But at least you have the seal.

Hopefully someone will come along that knows the answer.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Bought a new seal at autozone. Fit in no problem (still a very tight press fit though!). Seems the one in the kit is out of spec... :(

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Good! It is bad to have a bad seal 'cause it makes you question everything, but at least you got the problem solved and can move on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Got the goods back from the machinist... $325 later, and we're on to paint and assembly.

Paint is complete. I'll post pics later.

Run into an assembly issue: I'm an idiot and bought the wrong plastigauge. Was going to post about my bearings being too tight, but I misread the spec and goofed. Will get the right stuff tomorrow. DOH!!!

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I love it when a plan comes together! And it is still progress when you take two steps forward and one back.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

At least on #1 (all 7 mains had the same result with the "wrong" plastigauge), it looks like I'm at between 0.0020 and 0.0030 (more towards 0.0020). Out of the desired range (0.0008-0.0015), but within the allowable range (0.0010-0.0028)

Not enough to warrant going down a bearing size, but OK to run? Or do I need to get a re-grind?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

You're rebuilding your engine now.
Do you really want to start with your clearance at more than double the desirable starting clearance?
You may have another 8/10, but that's less than half the allowable wear.

Replacing the mains is another engine out operation.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Man, that's a good question.

Remind me, this is a re-bored engine with new pistons, rings, etc?

And what was done to the crank?

I want to have the info in one place before trying to suggest what to do. And I'm sure it'll help the others to reply as well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Rebored/honed block. Crank was polished and I was told by the machinist that it was "in spec" and to use standard sized bearings. The bearings are NOS ACL's (1994 MFD).

....

Spoke with a buddy who does Z-car restorations as a part time job... he says it should be OK, since it's the mains and not the rods (and it's within the acceptable range).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Frank Wyatt

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

I would believe that it would be OK. However, I would get an experts opinion and go however they suggested. You do only want to do this once and right the first time around.

1981 F 150 Custom 300 ci with a fully rebuilt 1968 240 head Carter YFA T-18 3.25 9" rear 2WD
dual gas tanks
1990 Lincoln Town Car 5.0 AOD
Home town Mc Kenzie, TN

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