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3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Jonathan - It is very strange. I really don't understand.

In your last pic did you not have your instrument bezel down in the notches? It looks lined up, but I'm guessing that's because the instrument bezel isn't "registered". Right?

And your switch is an original switch? Right?

So, who has one of these things in an original condition, meaning mounted and functional?

Do we have to move the face of the fog lamp bezel left with respect to the studs, and cut the slot in the instrument bezel further left? Or slot the hole in the dash for the switch?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Gary, that is indeed the nos fog light switch that is intended to be there. Look closely at the 3rd pic again. The XLS bezel is properly registered with its tabs inserted. But the blade of the toggle is way left in the slot and is pushing up the rubber flap. It does not line up.

I will see if I can get any info from guys who have fog light trucks on the FB groups. Christopher Lott, Chris McGaugh and Alfie Bockemuhl come to mind.

One thought... did the dash shell/superstructure change? The red one I mocked up today is from a 1986. Big Blue is 1985. Fog lights were discontinued in 1984?

SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Jonathan - I see how the lever is to the left, but it isn't as much "left" as I expected. In my mockup the lever was against the side of the slot, although my lever was thicker than yours.

But, looking at the switch itself I see that the pivot is actually a ball instead of a pin. So your lever may actually be angled to the right as it could both pivot left/right as well as up/down on that ball. In any event, it isn't right and may well cause problems, both with the switch as well as premature wear on the rubber flap.

As for the dash itself, the one I'm using for mockups is from an '82.

And, get the FB guys to sign up here to discuss it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

Administrator

Gary the toggle blade does not pivot on the ball, but I don't have a threaded nut for the front. I was just holding it from the back with one hand and the phone in the other to take the pic. It is entirely possible if not likely that I did not have the switch perfectly positioned when I took the picture. The blade might sit further left when fastened down.

For adding fog lights I guess you have a choice to either shift the switch bezel left to line up with the switch mount hole, or place the switch bezel at 0.325" from the headlight/wiper frame bead and fudge the mounting hole in the dash. In my case I pretty much only have the second choice available.

reamer

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

My Dash is an '84 Bronco, But I had the "option" of putting the Fog bezel where I wanted (centered)....
But IF all the Factory bezels are in fact "off center" at least it is consistent, and then, yes Gary, you could move the studs to compensate and have the lever "down the middle"

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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I'm not ready to change the bezel, but it wouldn't be hard. Perhaps we need two versions? However, let's hear from those that have factory installations or have created them to see if we are missing something.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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If folks are buying the fog lamp bezel to put one where there wasn't one before, then it seems like the position of the studs is irrelevant. You can use them to mount it wherever you like. I think that would be the most "normal" use. But I agree with Gary, we need to find out what is going on with the original ones and why they don't line up. There has to be a reason.

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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And make sure they show us the switch - just to ensure there isn't a dog-leg in the arm.

In fact, as suggested, invite them here.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Chris McGaugh is already a member, and I messaged him asking for input. I got in touch with Alfie and he said he will check his truck when he gets home and will sign in here to participate in the discussion. I am not personally connected with Christopher Lott on FB, but I posted in his freewheel group and linked this thread. If he does not post here I will relay anything that I find out.

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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A member of the freewheel group posted pics of his bezel. Factory fog lights, switch has never been removed. Toggle blade is way left in the slot mashing and deforming the rubber just like on my bezel. We may be looking at an engineering error plain and simple:

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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That seems to prove it, although more pics would be appreciated. It does appear to be a mistake on Ford's part.

Given that, it is time to start talking about how to fix it. But before we go there, if we are going to modify things from the original, and I think we need to do so, then why not make the height of the bezel match that of the bead around the headlight and wiper switches?

As for how to fix the problem, my suggestion is to move the goal posts - I mean the studs. That way no change to the mounting holes will be required in instrument bezels that are already drilled. And, if a factory fog lamp switch is being used with the flat blade, the factory slot may be wide enough to accommodate the switch. However, for round switch arms I think the slot will have to be widened. But, since it hides behind the fog lamp bezel that shouldn't be a problem.

I can do some more measuring today and see what I think the offset on the studs needs to be. And, if the factory slot looks wide enough - for a factory fog lamp switch.

But, what other suggestions do y'all have?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

reamer

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

Remember, most of the people (if any want a bezel) would be starting from ground zero, and can place the bezel where ever they want, so they can "center" it (like I did).

1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Yes. But the instructions or measurements we give them on where to drill the holes will vary depending on where the studs are. So, it would be better to only have one version out there, and I think that one version should be "right" for the factory holes. (I'm being selfish as I have a factory instrument bezel with the holes, and may want to use it.)

Also, look at the height of the fog lamp bezel vs that of the bead around the other switches. If we are changing, why not fix that?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

Administrator

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Let us get a little bit bigger sample size... and I need to get a retaining nut on mine so we can measure the discrepancy.

I was hoping Chris McGaugh might weigh in here directly, and he may still, but I will show you what he sent on messenger. His fog lamp bezel was toast, so he melted off the studs and transplanted the switch bezel. He located it by tracing the holes and slot on the old bezel and transferring it to a good one that he had. His still looks offset to the left to my eyes but not as bad. It is hard to say for sure since it is not factory, but it would be a good idea to make sure they were all off by the same amount:

Chris also said he has four of the fog light switches and none are offset or dog legged.

Edit: I asked Chris McGaugh to measure between the headlight/wiper switch bead and the edge of the fog lamp bezel in case the better fitment was due to slack in the holes. I am still waiting for a response from Christopher Lott...

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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I agree that we need a larger sample before making changes. However, it seems pretty certain that there's an alignment problem with factory instrument & fog lamp bezel alignment with the hole in the dash.

Therefore, I'm going to do some more scientific measuring to see if I can ascertain exactly how far it is off. Back in a bit.......

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Gary, if you want to borrow my nos foglight switch just say the word and I will drop it in the mail. I won't be needing it any time soon.

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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In reply to this post by Ford F834

Gary Chris McGaugh says he will measure his transplant bezel as well as another factory one that he recently acquired...

I also looked at the photo gallery of the 81 freewheel bronco here:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1981-Chromatic-stripe-trailer-special-Bronco-td2445.html

I zoomed in on the best dash pic. It isn't great but I can tell the switch lever is sitting to the left side of the slot:

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

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Jonathan - Thanks for the offer, but I'm pretty sure that I have the parts needed to figure out the offset: .095". Here's how I did it, as shown on the drawing. But, I want to make sure I did it correctly, so hope some of you will work through this with me to ensure it is right.

First, I put my instrument bezel, the one with the factory slot and holes, on the '82 dash. It fits in one and only one position, and while you can muscle it to another position it comes right back where it wants to be when you let loose. Then, with a small machinist's square across the light/washer switch beads to ensure it would be vertical, I played with drill bits until I found one that was a snug fit. It measures .375" on the shank.

And, with a little math I determined that the offset was .095". But, I wasn't comfortable with that, so I drew up the Should Be case by centering the instrument bezel's .475" wide slot above the .465" hole in the dash for the switch. (Note: It is D-shaped and is only .465" in the vertical dimension.)

Next I cloned that, called it Actual, drew in the drill bit, and moved the instrument bezel to the right until it touched. Viola, the offset is .095".

I'd like you to confirm that, but I realize that you have an instrument bezel with the factory holes in it and have a fog lamp bezel mounted. However, I think you can do it if you insert the bit from the back and butt it up against the back of the fog lamp bezel. It should fit between the right (seen from the front) side of the switch hole and the left side of the instrument bezel's slot. You can see this if look at the Actual With Fog Lamp Bezel drawing. And, it is my 25/64" bit that actually measures .375".

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Ford F834

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

Administrator

That looks very precise Gary. I would say that what you have is the ideal situation to make the measurements. That is, a factory instrument bezel with the fog light bezel removed. I would agree with the assessment that the instrument bezel only fits in one spot and can't be fudged. It sits in pretty snug. For those adding the fog light bezel, reducing the distance between the fog light bezel bead and the headlight/wiper switch area bead from .0325" to 0.230" should produce the desired placement over the switch hole in the dash, correct?

Gary Lewis

Re: 3-D printer Fog light bezel has been made and shipped!

Administrator

I'm not sure I'm ready to say that the bead-to-bead difference should be .230". I say that because I just measured four different bezels to get the height of the wiper/headlight switch bead so we can adjust the height of the fog lamp bezel to match. And, I got 2.310 to 2.350". Yep, a .040" difference on what I thought would be less than .010". So, if there's that much difference between bead heights might there be that much or more in its length?

And, by the way, these were different, with one being Rosewood, one burlwood, and two being different meshes. Further, the burlwood is enough different that getting my calipers down in it to measure was much harder than on all the others. So, there are some differences in the instrument bezels in spite of them all fitting in the same spot.

We will need to figure this out before we give definitive measurements on where to cut the slot and drill the holes. And, by the way, given the shape of the fog lamp bezel with the studs sticking out of the back, I'm also not sure if a bead/bead dimension is much help. They'll need to measure and cut/drill the openings first, and then they can use the bead/bead measurement to align it properly. Perhaps lay the right sized drill bit in between and then tighten the nuts down?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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