Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

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Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
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My wife's cousin just called and is taking me up on my offer to come get his 1960 C10 and take it to my paint/body man.  And, along the way we'll move his '65 Malibu to a storage facility.  But, that will mean a 250 mile day, with a lot of winching as neither vehicle runs.

So, I'm thinking through what vehicle I want to tow with, and would like your thoughts.  First, here are my thoughts regarding taking Big Blue:

Good opportunity to use him  
But the brake controller needs to be rewired slightly so the brakes work on the trailer, although I really need to do that anyway  
Gas mileage will be poor - after all, its a 460/7.5L
Winching a vehicle on/off the trailer will be easy - attach the trailer to the front hitch and do it,
 and there's two "ons" and two "offs"
The dual batteries give gobs of reserve, but the 1G alternator won't charge them very fast
Both vehicles are in a pasture, and the tires on Big Blue will handle the possibility of soft ground well


And, here are thoughts about using Blue:
I'll have to drill the winch stand on the trailer to take the winch
I'll have to move the winch over to the trailer
I'll have to remove the auxiliary battery from Big Blue, find a battery box, and then wire it up when I get there - each time I want to use it  
Easier to tow with the torque of the Ecoboost 3.5L
Lots of comfort

What are your thoughts?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

85lebaront2
Gary, I personally other than maybe being an automatic, think the ecoboost will tow that much better than the 460. The gas mileage will be much better though. Alternator, yes the 1G is what 60 amps, it will take a while.

Winch on the trailer, probably needs to be done, battery charge, get some long welding cables so you can hook the winch battery to Blue's battery for fast charging.

Both are 4WD correct? Advantage I can see using Big Blue, that 1960 Chevy pickup is probably fairly heavy, but you hauled Big Blue from Florida, so it should be doable with Blue.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The Ecoboost makes towing child's play.  We brought Big Blue back from Florida with Blue and got 9 MPG running 75 MPH.  In Tow/Haul mode you get engine braking at the touch of the brake, making stopping easy.

But, it doesn't have the rear spring capacity of Big Blue, and the Chevy will be heavy, although not as heavy as Big Blue was.  However, the rear of Blue sat down a bunch with the F250 on the trailer.  And, for that matter, it will be my new trailer and it weighs more than Brandon's, so tongue weight will be more.  From that standpoint Big Blue would be the better choice.

Yes, both are 4wd.  At least Blue is supposed to be 4wd.  But a year ago I took him to CO and got into some snow and his 4wd didn't work.  Turned out the Integrated Wheel Ends were bad.  They've been replaced, but I trust Big Blue's manual hubs more.

Right now I'm leaning to taking Big Blue as it will be a fun outing.  And, there's less to do to get ready.  But, I do need to hook him up to the new trailer and make sure the winch line clears the front rail.  And, fix my wiring error on the brake controller.

Anyway, thanks for the input.  I'm still thinking so keep those cards and letters coming in.  

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Ford F834
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I think you have two good options here, so no wrong answer really. I was thinking Big Blue for the reason you mentioned of having less to do to prepare. As far as preference I know what I would pick ;)
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 SRW under construction-- 7.3 IDIT R&D 64mm intercooled turbo 150cc IP stage 1 cam main girdle 13" Southbend clutch ZF-5 + DNE2 overdrive 4.10 axle gears hydroboost brakes

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4 conversion-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I think we are on the same page.  Blue would make it child's play, but Big Blue would be more fun.  

And, it gives me the impetus to get some things fixed, like the brake controller.  And maybe even put the glass run in to cut the wind noise - although then I might hear the glass packs drone.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, it is time for Plan A.5, which is Big Blue with the winch located on the trailer.  As I was sitting on the porch drinking coffee this morning I noticed that there are a few things in the way of the winch line if it is mounted on Big Blue.  Yep, the jack is positioned dead-center, right where the line would need to go.  




But, as it turns out, even if I'd asked for the jack to be mounted to the side it still wouldn't work.  The deck height on the trailer when level is 28", but the winch line comes out of Big Blue's bumper at 24".  No way it should go up 4", snake across the trailer, and then go down the dovetail to the vehicle - not good on a winch line or the trailer.  So, the winch has to mount on the trailer.  No problem, that's the way I planned it originally.  And, that means there's little chance of drag of the line on the deck.

But, I need to do some wiring as I want to connect the winch to Big Blue's wiring.  As luck would have it, a guy came to get my mower for warranty service today, and his trailer had just the right kind of connectors.  So I went on-line and found them, but they range from 50 amp capacity up.  As it turns out, my winch can pull 330 amps at 12,000 lbs, so it looks like I need the connectors shown below, which are in stock at Grainger in Tulsa.  They are good for 350 amps and they take the 2/0 wire I have for Big Blue's transformation. I'm thinking I'll pick 4 of them up when we go to into town on Friday.  That way I can put a pair on the existing wiring on Big Blue and then make a jumper with the other pair.  Move the winch to the trailer, plug in the jumper, and away we go.

Thoughts?  Better ideas?

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

NotEnoughTrucks
I've got that style of connector on a snowplow. Works well. Also seen them before on UPS battery packs. Should be just the ticket.

So, how far is this haul? (Went back to read post 1, so 250 miles it is!) I know the 460 likes gas, but I would vote for the fun factor here. Nothing like a shakedown cruise opportunity.
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ray - We are in sync.  

The round trip will be about 250 miles.  It'll take a tank going and coming, and when bringing Huck home I learned that it needs 91 octane.  Nothing but the best, and lots of it.  

As for the connectors, Grainger has 4 of them on hold for me as well as 25 10mmx1.50x35mm 10.9 fasteners that I need to secure the winch to Big Blue's bumper.  Heretofore I've not quite had full thread engagement on the captive nuts, and don't like that.  Plus, I can't use lock washers w/o longer bolts.

But, I got the trailer's winch stand drilled for the winch today and the winch moved over.  (Pics tomorrow.)  However, I discovered that the winch hook won't go through the fairlead.  So, with that hook on I'll have to run the line completely out and remove it from the winch, move the winch, and then re-install the line - with at least 2000 lbs of tension on the line.  Not fun.  So, I'm going to replace the hook with an aluminum shackle, which is the black bit in the pic below.  (The fairlead is the aluminum-colored piece.)

The shackle has a pin held in with snap rings and I can remove the shackle by removing the pins.  And I can install the existing hook to the shackle with a D-ring.  So, I think I have a plan.

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Here's proof I actually got something done yesterday:

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

1986F150Six
Looks nice!
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Thanks.  I centered the winch in the top plate, but if I had to do it over again I'd move it farther back so the line would clear the bar better.  The way it is there's a chance that the line will touch the bar as the vehicle gets close to the front.  But I'm going to try it this way and find out.  Maybe I'll have to re-drill.  

Tomorrow I'll pick up the connectors and bolts at Grainger, and hopefully the shackle at 4WD Parts.  But their site doesn't show the Smittybilt shackle in the above pic.  Instead, they are selling a Pro-Link unit that is $142 as opposed to $64 for the Smittybilt.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Nothing Special
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
.... it looks like I need the connectors shown below, which are in stock at Grainger in Tulsa.  They are good for 350 amps and they take the 2/0 wire I have for Big Blue's transformation. I'm thinking I'll pick 4 of them up when we go to into town on Friday.  That way I can put a pair on the existing wiring on Big Blue and then make a jumper with the other pair.  Move the winch to the trailer, plug in the jumper, and away we go.

Thoughts?  Better ideas?

Those are the connectors I have on my receiver-mount winch.  I used 5 of them for what I wanted to do.  I put one on the winch mount, with really short wires going to the winch solenoid box.  That way I don't have long power leads dragging around when I move the winch.  I put a second under the hood, and then put the third and fourth on either end of about 4 feet of cable.  So when I'm not actually using the winch there's no connection from the winch to the battery, but it's just plugging in both ends of my "extension cord" to get it live.  The fifth connector went just inside the tailgate so I can do the same when the winch is in the rear receiver.

Yes, this means that I have the potential (pun not intended, but it was recognized) to forget the power cord.  But I keep it with the winch controller, and I'm pretty much dead in the water if I forget that anyway.  And they are with my tree saver strap, leather gloves and clevises, so I really just need to remember the one container.
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 30' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

reamer
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I'm leaning toward Big Blue: Brute force may be required, even at the expense of gas, less prep work, and manual, aka "I know they are locked" hubs...
1986 F-150 Flareside 4x4, 351, 4-v, ZF5 speed. AC, Cruise, Tilt, Slider, Digital clock, Radio, Lariat seat, Pwr doors/locks
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nothing Special
Glad to know those connectors work.  And I like the idea of disconnecting the power to the winch until ready to use it.

As for forgetting the jumper, it'll be in the tool box on Big Blue with the control, clevis, hook, and snatch block.  However, I don't have a tree saver, so will probably pick one of those up today when I'm in 4WD Parts to get the shackle.  Glad you mentioned that.

And you are right, Ron, brute force may be needed.  Last time I was on that property was when we pulled the '50 Chevy out, and I was using Rusty, the 1981 F150 to tow with.  The '50 was sunk to its hubs in the ground, and wasn't coming out.  So we chained from the trailer to it and jerked it out by getting a bit of slack - several times.  I'd rather not do that with my new truck, but don't think it'll bother Big Blue at all.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Nothing Special
Gary Lewis wrote
Glad to know those connectors work.  And I like the idea of disconnecting the power to the winch until ready to use it....

For what it's worth (and somewhat off topic), I also have my winch wiring powered through a relay, so the big heavy cables that run the length of the Bronco for the rear connector aren't live all the time.  That wasn't real cheap (I bought a Warn kit that included the relay, cable to run to the back and a couple of the connectors), but it seemed like a good idea.
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
2015 E-450-based 30' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Interesting approach.  I do have a relay that should be good for that much current, but at this point I don't think I'm going to have a need for the winch to be mounted on a receiver.  I'm thinking that mounted on either the front bumper or the trailer will be enough.

Having said that, I won't have a way to use the winch with Blue unless I wire up a connector on it.  But, it doesn't have near the battery capacity that Big Blue does, although it has a lot more alternator.  Hmmmm...
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

FuzzFace2
I don't think that Big Blue's 460 will be all that bad on fuel if you keep the speed down and it will have no issues pulling anything.
I used a 460/C6 in a 76 E350 to pull a 35'+ 2 car trailer most of the time, once in a wile a 1 car. Yes the 460 liked fuel, duel tanks, but when looking at the weight of the 2 cars & the trailer I don't think it was all that bad.

Now for batt. power for the winch, I don't see an issue with the 2 batt. & 1G ALT. Keep the motor running when winching and the amount of driving you will be doing in between winching will re-charge them.
Even if you had 1 batt I still don't think it would be an issue just little more work for the ALT sooner than with 2 batt.

It might be nice to have the comfort of blue for the drive but you need a real truck like big blue for field work. Oh that C10 will be heavy, I towed one on my trailer with a utility body on it.
Dave ----

ps I don't have to worry of power to my trailer mounted winch.......it's a hand winch!
Mine is mounted on something like your trailer jack. If you mounted yours there the spare would be in the way.
81 F100 flare side 300 six/T18 project
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck
http://cars.grantskingdom.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'll keep the speed down, but that means I'll be that guy in the right lane going far slower than anyone else.  I say that because I usually take the turnpike and the speed limit is currently 75 - and the traffic runs 80.  Maybe I'd better rethink that?  

Hand winch - ouch!  That's what we had the last time I went to that piece of property, which was to get the '50 Chevy pickup.  As said, it had sunk into the ground up to the hubs, and the tires were D-shaped.  Getting it broken loose from the ground, even with a lot of shoveling, was a huge chore.  But winching it by hand was a major problem.  We'd get it rolling and then all 4 flat spots on the tires would hit the ground at the same time.    That's the day I vowed to have a serious electric winch.

As for the batteries, the driving will certainly charge them up nicely.  And I will keep the truck running while winching.  But, I need to come up with a way to raise the idle speed to get more charging from that 1G as it just doesn't do much at idle.

Anyway, today I'm hoping to try to crimp the connectors into Big Blue's wiring.  And then determine how long my extension cord/jumper cable needs to be and make it.  But Scott's coming over w/his '78 and we are going to replace the water pump, so we'll see how much I get done.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

85lebaront2
Gary, use the fast idle cam on the Carterbrock, I use to do on Darth with the Holley 4180, works good and will cancel as soon as you tap the gas. I need to find out what the PTO terminal on the 460 EEC-V does, whether you ground it or apply 12V to it as I'll bet it raises the idle speed.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Outing For Big Blue or Blue?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Good idea, Bill.  I'll have to pull the air cleaner to set it, but that's not a problem.

As for the PTO terminal, if you only had a 1996 EVTM.  

By the way, the outfit that sent me the second poorly-printed one told me to keep it.  So I'll probably cut the pages out and scan the ones I need for the EEC-V upgrades to both my trucks, and they'll become part of my documentation.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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