Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum › Projects

Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Classic

List

Threaded

303 messages Options

1 ... 10111213141516

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Yep, Jim. That's correct. It is confusing. But Christian's truck is like mine was. I guess I didn't have my head around that either.

But at least I have the "the thread" so I can go back and find "it". For instance, the dipstick that was just asked about.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Hi guys

Work has been keeping me busy the last couple of days.

But I was able to get a little "Truck Time":=)

Sprayed the TSV ports -engine feed- and Return With silikone spray, and measured Power to both tank plugs.

Front tank:
With engine running and Fuel tank selector switch (FTSS handle right side of ac panel) in front, I get bliking in one terminal( sender signal?) and permanent light in another(pump signal?) in the Third no signal( ground?).

My guess: Power is good to this pump.

With plug Attached and ear to pump Mount I hear an uneven hissing, splurting sound. ( Im guessing pump is not working correctly?)

Gauge has signal but With full tank it shows below empty and upon using fuel it will go to half full and then back to empty, when showing empty its barely half empty when refueling.

My conclusion is that the relativ New Airtex aftermarket pump does not work and that was the reason the add on pump was installed in the engine bay.

Rear tank:

With engine running and FTSS in rear, I get blinking in one terminal and permanent light in another in the Third no signal.

My guess: Power is good to this pump.

If I let it stay in rear, engine With eventually stall and go out.

Gauge shifts and signals low fuel fuel, which is problably right, but other than that I dont know if sender is well calibrated.

My conclusion is that the original pump does not work, sender might I dont know.

Does this sounds reasonably?

Best regards

Christian

Below is Picture of TSV and electrical pulg seen from inside.

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

While most of that sounds reasonable, I would guess that what you hear from the front tank is fuel returning.
For the sender, it could be the resistance board has some corrosion or the contact point itself is misbehaving.

Since you already have the rear module I would suggest replacing that one and giving a inspection of the tank while it is opened.

Here in the U.S. the $100 cost of a new tank makes these not worth cleanup or repair.
The CBA may be very different in Norway, I don't know.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

In reply to this post by Papelione

Christian - I think your conclusions are reasonable.

I think you said that they plumbed around the valve, right? So can you blow through the ports? In other words, does the valve seem to be working?

I ask because it is a critical piece in the whole system, and if it isn't working you'll either have to replace it or do something different.

As for the fuel senders, the one in the front tank is typical - it works at different points but not everywhere.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Gary, do you find these thermal gauges with the ICVR generally average out these fluctuations, or do they tend to jump around?

I find it odd that these sender's use such a crude method, when a 'real' pot is so very inexpensive.

My truck uses gauges that are driven by magnetic field.
So while I know how the spring heats up I don't know how those instruments behave day to day.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

The thermal guages only average out the fluctuations due to turning corners or starting/stopping. But when they hit a dead spot in the trace they go to Empty pretty quickly.

It is a poor design, for sure. And I'm amazed that we don't blow trucks up since there's up to 1/2 amp of current flowing and it is in the tank.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Hard for anything to combust when the tank is full of fumes.

Think of the F/A ratios that are going to burn inside the engine.
10:1-20:1 at the extremes?

Just like you can drown a lit match in gasoline.
Too rich and it can't go off because the activation energy is too high.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

If you've ever seen a car with it's filler on fire, the flame will just burn at the fill door until the tank itself gets hot enough for everything to go off at once.

And with the cap off its much less likely to pop due to overpressure.

Theatre is often overdramatic.
Not that it can't happen...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

TWA Flight 800 sure had problems, and that was just jet fuel:

Problems with the aircraft's wiring were found, including evidence of arcing in the Fuel Quantity Indication System (FQIS) wiring that enters the tank. The FQIS on Flight 800 is known to have been malfunctioning; the captain remarked on what he called "crazy" readings from the system approximately two minutes and thirty seconds before the aircraft exploded.

Dunno what kind of current the FQIS carried, but the Bullnose fuel level system is powered by a system capable of providing around 3 amps. So "crazy readings" on a Bullnose fuel gauge worry me. I've not heard or read of any truck catching fire from it, but it worries me.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Believe what you choose to believe. 😒

I've heard, read about and even seen somebody get hit by a bus.
I was run over by a tractor trailer myself!

It doesn't keep me from crossing the street. 😆

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Friday afternoon

Was out inspecting the tank just now, and a friendly Mann with a 2003 Ford Expedition stopped by out of nowhere, we had a nice chat:=) unexpected but nice.

Back to he tank trouble, lifted out the rear fuel pump, and rear tank was full with fuel, I caught the top flow with at 20 l bucket, fuel was same color as coke and had a lot of sludge in it......

Pump looked like it was part of a rust coral reef.

Im thinking that I will order a new tank and pumps.

But who do you think makes the best pumps for my truck, wouldn't mind spending a little extra as long as its good and reliable. Airtex does´nt impress me, but looks as it might be the only option?

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Christian - You need both the pump and the sending unit. You can get them together or separate if I remember correctly.

My go-to place is Rock Auto for things like this. See if this link doesn't take you to a 1984 F250 w/a 460's fuel and air section. That will show you several options.

To me the best is Motorcraft, but they are typically 3 times or more the cost of an Airtex or Spectra. I chose Spectra for Big Blue - and may have gotten two bad units in a row, although we aren't sure yet.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

This post was updated on .

Hi

Yes I like Rockauto too but they state "out of stock" for my pumps.

Bronco graveyard have them listed, but I just called them and pumps are on backorder because of the pandemic.

Actually found and new old stock TSV, from an old ford parts warehouse. Its on the way.

Where to look for motorcraft pumps?

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Been sitting hunting for a pump and a tank for some time now.

Got the last pump (Airtex they had 1 in stock) for the front tank from rockauto, and a new rear tank ass well.

will be here within a couple of weeks, then we will see:=)

Tried to read up on "hot fuel handling" and from what I read, some guys has gone through several pumps before realizing something was wrong with the TSV or had a too constrict fuel filter,

Making the pump fight against to much pressure and failed on behalf off that.

Is that a known problem? or did I get it wrong?

/Christian

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

I hadn't heard/read about that. But I can see that it could happen.

Glad you are finding parts. They are getting hard to find. But some places sell a tank with the pump in it, so if you could find that it might save on shipping.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

In reply to this post by Papelione

Papelione wrote

Tried to read up on "hot fuel handling" and from what I read, some guys has gone through several pumps before realizing something was wrong with the TSV or had a too constrict fuel filter,

Making the pump fight against to much pressure and failed on behalf off that.

Is that a known problem? or did I get it wrong?

/Christian

The pump cools itself by flowing fuel through it.
I could see how deadheading the pump against blockage or severe restriction could easily cause it's untimely demise.

There is also a reason that versions of the HFH system use a resistor to decrease current to the pump.
And I imagine plenty of ignorant people remove or bypass this because "obviously something's wrong... it's not getting proper voltage"

Do not worry, Christian!
You have done all the troubleshooting....and more!
You have quite a good handle on this.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

:=) that´s very motivating to read

Wanted to test the old TSV properly today.

Put it in the vice, and sprayed again with silicon, (PTFE). Clips in terminal 4 and 5.

And started shifting Power and ground to the terminals. While looking in the pipes it seams there is a valve that moves up and down.

Also tried with some compressed air (low compression) through the source and return pipes while shifting, and airflow shifts too...
Can´t feel any difference between rear and front pipes, airflow seams to be the same.

I would say the TSV is now working as it should?

/C

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

Gary Lewis

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Since you say the air flow shifts when you swap ground & power, I'd say it is working correctly.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Administrator

Agreed!

Diagnostics complete.
I would say your tank selector valve is fully functional.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Papelione

Re: Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

Preparing while waiting for parts, should be here next week.

Been installing new fuel hoses in the engine compartment, and removing the add-on fuel pump there.

Today I took down the rear fuel tank, which was a bit troublesome, but eventually I got it out.

The missus was not too pleased with the gasoline smell in the driveway, but the skies eventually cleared up:=)

But when I dismantling the filler pipe and hose from the tank, The pipe was full of rust. I don't see any way the cleaning this, except maybe taking of the pipe and submerge the filler pipe in Hydrochloric acid?

Stupid or would that clean it up?

The alternative is to buy a new one off course, LMC has the parts need but they state that it´s for later 87-onwards model, but maybe it would fit?

Part "7" and maybe part "9"

See pictures below.

Part number 43-339

Looks pretty close to mine....

1984, F250, 2wd, 460, manual.

1 ... 10111213141516