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Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

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ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

I'll hook the exhaust back up then. Looks like I'm driving it for my Thanksgiving trip... my inlaws have compressed air. Either that, or I find the $$$ for a compressor. Hmm...

Edit- I might just do a wet compression test... Poor man's leakdown?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

grumpin

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

You could do both, a compression check before you go and a leak down when you get there.

Edit, have you checked for intake leaks? Vacuum leaks?

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Yes I have. Was an issue early on, but after replacing a rotted vacuum cap, no more leaks. Verified via party fogger smoke test.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

This post was updated on .

Will post details later.

For now, Some quick info:

-Plugs seem to tell a story. #1 (L) -> #6 (R):

(They're all the same motorcraft plug, odd that the black ones are rolling coal but the others aren't).

-Only had time to test cylinder #1. 130psi dry, off the chart wet... spun over to clear excess oil... 195psi on the second wet try. Seems #1 has ring issues?

Thoughts on plugs? Better plug out there than stock motorcraft copper for TFI?

EDIT- there is a difference! the blacks are BSF42C's, while the shiny ones are BSF42CA's. Which is right? does it matter?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

My preference is NGK V-power copper plugs.
Nothing against Motorcraft, but I will never buy another Autolite or Champion plug.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Man, #1 and #2 look bad.

And #2 looks wet well up the plug. Is it?

I'd be inclined to put a new set of whatever plugs it calls for in and see if that doesn't help. But then "read" them in 100 miles or so.

As for the compression test, it does seem like #1's rings are well worn. But if the compression went "off the chart" maybe you put too much oil in?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Did some looking, it appears that the plugs are on paper are all compatible. They're actually SP420 and SP420A respectively, and it seems the former was superseded by the latter. Why things changed? Dunno.

May just be coincidance and cylinders #1 and #2 are just ****ed. Poor engine?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

The bodies are wet from a leaking valve cover. Dry inside.

Also a lighting issue... #1 is really that bad, #2 has a spot of black but the rest looks normal. I reshot the picture with flash enabled, I'll upload it in a bit (Still working on putting it back together, taking a moment to warm/rest my hands).

Plugs were replaced a few months ago. Has some funky platinum plugs that were worn to nothing when I bought it.

Yes I did put in too much oil, which is why I spun it open (no gauge or hose) to blow some the oil out and retested... which is where the 195PSI came from.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

If the outside of the plug was wet it may be that the spark was jumping down the plug to ground. That would certainly give you a miss, but that usually happens under load.

Anyway, perhaps new plugs would make a big difference.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Will try.

Running very rough with misfiring at idle right now. Firing order looks to be correct... who knows what I messed up. I did smell burning oil... but maybe I fouled #1's plug anyway.

I'll be in Canada this week for work, so unless I try anything else tonight, this is it until Saturday (or Friday evening?).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Clearer picture of plugs:

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Definitely burning some oil at the front of that block!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Note- these pics were taken before I re-installed the plugs following the wet/dry compression test.

I'll order new plugs and when I return from Canada I'll install them... me thinks plug #1 fouled the rest of the way due to the wet test oil. Seemed to run OK for a short bit, then started missing and occassionally popping

. Not like it was running before.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Yep, #1 is a problem. Something is wrong with that cylinder, and most likely the rings.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Got back from Canada, and replaced the #1 and #2 spark plugs (#1 was badly oil fouled).

Good news: it idles better

Bad news: It still shakes like mad when torqued and my highway fuel milage (so far) is just over 10 MPG. It's possible that I got a short fill when I left town; I'll get a better idea when I fill up next. Still. 163 miles down (mapping my path shows it closer to 170 miles, close enough) and 15.3 gallons in is depressing.

Tired engine? Looks like I have a rebuild/replace coming up...

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

It may be depressing for an I-6, but that's every day of the last 32 years for me! 🤣

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

With the 300 six and an AOD you should be knocking on the door of 20 MPG. David is with his, and while his has the manual tranny with OD, the AOD should come close.

So you may well have a worn engine. But I'd still run a leak-down test to make sure before you decide to rebuild it.

And speaking of rebuilding it, someone on here has to try Scotty The Mad Porter's 300 build. He's one of the premier gurus on the 460, but he says he does a mean 300 as well.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Ok, several items, one have you checked the timing, SPOUT connector unplugged with a warm engine. After doing that and reconnecting the SPOUT see if you are getting spark advance. These trucks do not have an MIL so there is nothing to warn you if it isn't working right.

One other very common problem with many in-line 6 engines, balancer coming apart. Some had a reference mark from the hub to the outer ring. To find out for certain, take one of the bad plugs, gut it and thread the shell for a stop screw. Carefully install it in either #1 or #6 plug hole whichever is easier and rotate the engine by hand (socket and breaker bar) until it stops. Mark the location of the pointer on the balancer, then turn back the other way until it stops, mark the balancer again. Halfway between the marks should be TDC on the balancer, if it isn't then it needs replacing.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

1. Have checked previously, not the issue. SPOUT disconnected, at 10 BTDC, the idle is completely different, so if I lost advance, it would be obvious. It idles fine, the issue is when I try to get torque out of it.

2. Also checked previously, my indicator is spot on (within a degree, seems to be bang on).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

This post was updated on .

If the "idle is completely different" with the spout out (locked timing) maybe your ecu is the problem?
Or one of the sensors the ecu uses to determine timing? Temp, vacuum, throttle position, etc...

Of course it would be, just like connecting vacuum to DSII.
But if it is hunting around, makes me think the computer's being tricked.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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