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Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

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ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Gary Lewis wrote

Oh no! Hope it was a fluke.

It wasn't... did it again this morning (rough fluctuating idle, 6 degrees of timing). Pulled codes, no codes, all good. Tried to erase codes... no change, still 6 degrees of timing. Drove it to work... when I got to the lot, re-timed it at warm idle, back to the expected 30 degrees (or wherever it's been idling at when good).

Seems 6 degrees isn't necessarily an indication of limp mode... could it have had to do with being on the fast idle cam? I didn't take it off the cam until I drove it to work.

Will recheck the schematics on site to make sure there isn't an extra input or the like used by manuals... Weird indeed. Considering it's a Ford reman, my thinking is it was actually remanned. Maybe I ought to pop it open and check for any blown caps... it came in a very old box!

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Looking at the wiring diagram, there is one ECU wire marked "auto trans only"... it connects to a diode, which connects to the ECU and one wire on the EEC IV test connector. tracing it back, it goes to the middle of the neutral/clutch starter interlocks in the cranking circuit... but due to how the diode is wired, all it seems to do is allow one to crank the engine from the test connector (blocks the cranking power from making it to the test connector and ECU). Unless this is a misprint, that effectively means that for ECU operational purposes, it doesn't matter.

However, if that diode was shorted... trouble. Not sure what that wire does on the test connector (dark green and white), but if that was kicking on every time I started, could it be putting me in some sort of weird test mode? Thankfully, since it is on the test connector, and that the starter relay control wire is close by, testing for a shorted diode is easy and I'll try to check it after lunch.

Edit- that wire goes to pin 5 of the test connector... which everywhere seems to be "unused". So what it does, nobody knows?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I don't have the '84 EVTM to-hand, but looking at the '85 version on line I see the W/PK Dot wire as shown below. Is that the one you are talking about?

Man, it gets confusing after that. Towards the bottom of the page is says those wires go to pages 28 and 31. Here is Pg 28 and I can't find that wire. However, the circuit that wire is part of does come back to this page from Pg 31 at M.

And here is Pg 31. This time the wire is shown, but it is labeled "EFI Only".

Do these pages match yours? If so, it appears that the wire is there to tell the ECU that the tranny is in Park or Neutral and it is safe to crank the engine.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Yeah, that's the wire on the other side of the diode.

The wiring diagram I'm looking at goes like this:

Green is the ECU wire, 150. This one makes it sound like that wire goes to the connector (to the "5" position, which from what I read elsewhere is universally "unused" across all EECIV???)

Diode is in yellow.

The white/pink crank wire, 33, is in magenta... which follows along to this page:

...which matches what the EVTM is showing. I've crossed out the unused duraspark system shown on this page.

Based on the diode polarity, for an automatic, if there wasn't a connection to the test connector, unless the ECU was somehow commanding crank (obviously not!), that wire would do nothing, as the source is either open or +12V (no ground for current to sink to). Which is what makes me think that both options have the wire to the connector, and it was used for a Ford proprietary purpouse (why it's listed as unused), which on automatics also serve to crank the engine over if the transmission is in neutral/park.

I'll look into it over lunch (and if the connection does exist to the test plug, I can diode test between it and the solenoid command wire both ways to see if the diode is shorted).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I know there are several connections shown in the EVTMs that were for factory use only. So maybe that is one of them?

Anyway, good luck!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Tyler

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

I haven't read the 20 pages....just getting home from a little trip out in the deep ocean.
Looks like you've found some problems but did you consider a clogged catalytic converter? I went to an old timer shop years ago with stalling problems and they cut a hole in my cat. Got a history lecture about clogged cats and automatic old Fords. Drove away a little louder but it fixed my issues.

Cheers

1985 F150 4x4 SB 300 I6: Comp 268 cam, '68 240 head, Offy DP, FI manifolds, Holley Sniper 2300, DUI street/strip distributor, BW T-18, Tuff Country 4" suspension lift, Yukon Offroad hubs + front and rear Duragrip LSD 3.73 ratio, 33-12.5/15s

Gear Vendors overdrive unit on order.

Oklahoma boy livin in Washington State. Retired submarine MMNCM (Nuclear Machinist's Mate, Master Chief)

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

This post was updated on .

Reviving this thread to put it to bed once and for all.

Two final changes were made which seemed to fix the problems:

1. I replaced the catback. See this thread for details. My muffler was a very, very, very poorly flowing unit to say the least... That had a huge impact on MPG (or at least has on the limited testing done so far).

2. While on one of many junkyard runs due to an unfortunate incident, I picked up another 1984 300 AOD ECU... and have ran it for a day of mixed driving with no issues. And compared to the manual ECU, the only difference that I might have noticed is the idle speed (but that's hard to say, since most of what I saw was related to the fast idle cam, not the ECU throttle control). I ran KOEO and KOER tests and other than two faults on the latter for not kicking the throttle in time (and having a testing failure preventing a retest). Problem solved.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Glad you got to close this out, Larry.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

More data from a long trip in it:

Mixed highway with a bit of local driving: 16mpg

Pure interstate 70mph: 18.4mpg.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

That’s good MPH.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

ratdude747 wrote

2. While on one of many junkyard runs due to an unfortunate incident, I picked up another 1984 300 AOD ECU... and have ran it for a day of mixed driving with no issues. And compared to the manual ECU, the only difference that I might have noticed is the idle speed (but that's hard to say, since most of what I saw was related to the fast idle cam, not the ECU throttle control). I ran KOEO and KOER tests and other than two faults on the latter for not kicking the throttle in time (and having a testing failure preventing a retest). Problem solved.

While looking at this thread morning, I remembered that I have an ECU from a 1985 or 1986 F150 with 4.9L engine and automatic transmission. It was from a locally owned city utility truck which had 61K miles on it. If anyone is looking for one, get in touch with me.

FuzzFace2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by ratdude747

ratdude747 wrote

More data from a long trip in it:

Mixed highway with a bit of local driving: 16mpg

Pure interstate 70mph: 18.4mpg.

18.4 is pretty good in my book as I have a hard time keeping mine in the 15 MPG range.
Dave ----

Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100

grumpin

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

18.4 is a foreign language to me!

Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by 1986F150Six

C6 or AOD? Do you know if it was California emissions, high altitude, or neither?

All of those combos have different ECUs... although the engineering number will allow a crossreference to the master calibration list if memory serves.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by grumpin

grumpin wrote

18.4 is a foreign language to me!

Right! What is that "1" preceding the MPG? Us 460 owners aren't used to that.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Depending on how my luck works out, I may get a 460 too!.

I've said it before that I'm a man of extremes... Never been much of a 302 or 351 guy. But if not a 300 maximizing fuel economy, I'll take a 460 (or an IDI) maximizing raw power and torque. I'm weird.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

The ditty about a 460 passing anything but a gas station has some truth in it. I don't think there is anything you can do to make a 460 sip gas. But mine has pretty good torque. And for the time in which they were designed they were some of the strongest engines out there.

However, time has moved on and there are lots of engines today that have the torque of a 460 and will blow it away on MPG. The latest 3.5L Ecoboost has 400 HP and 500 lb-ft, which compares quite favorably with what my 460 is supposed to make - 360-370 HP and 500 lb-ft. I can't say how the new EB engine does on fuel, but my 2015 got 11 MPG pulling our 25' Sea Ray 2700 miles at 65 MPH, and will turn in 20 MPG if you run 65 and don't use the speed control. Big Blue gets 11 MPG running light at the same speed.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

ratdude747 wrote

C6 or AOD? Do you know if it was California emissions, high altitude, or neither?

All of those combos have different ECUs... although the engineering number will allow a crossreference to the master calibration list if memory serves.

The donor truck had a C6 and was sold in Alabama, so neither California emissions nor high altitude.

If needed, numbers from the unit can be provided. This was previously listed in the Swap Meet thread for the 2021 show:

* EEC-IV FBC-ISC3 8K MROM [computer] - E5DF-12A650-H2A This was pulled from a 1985 F150 [61K miles; a former city utility dept. vehicle] with auto. transmission and 4.9L engine.

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I always heard it as "a 460 will tow anything... to the next gas station!"

Oh I know it's not as practical of an engine as something new. I'd love to see what a Godzilla V8 would be like in one of these trucks (especially a bullnose, due to being so much lighter than the prior generation). Now that would a slick tow setup!

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

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