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Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

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85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

If the ECU is not controlling the mixture, I believe it may default to full rich. All the solenoid does is control the air bleeds, unfortunately I do not have one I can look at (sold my 4.9L feedback carburetor to a friend with an 86 4.9L bullnose). If you put your finger on the solenoid with the engine running you should be able to feel it "cycling". You can try first see if you have power at the red wire going to all the various emission solenoid valves with the engine running. The EEC relay is a time delay, which tells me it waits long enough to allow the engine to stabilize before closing to power the components. Go here for the pertinent EVTM section: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/electronic-engine-control1.html that should help you with what is supposed to happen. If the relay never closes, then none of that system will work.

Another sanity check, there should be an idle speed motor, which also has a closed throttle switch to tell the ECU you are at idle, it is supposed to control the idle speed and open the throttle on deceleration. If it isn't working then I would bet none of the other stuff is working either.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

This post was updated on .

The mix solenoid is being controlled; when shut down once can hear it being pulsed for a couple seconds.

EEC relay already verified to be sending 12V to the ECU (proven when probing such for adding the heated O2). Throttle motor was replaced not long ago (later found the old one to still be good and is still on the shelf); it is controlling throttle based on turning the AC on and off (idle is maintained in both cases).

My questions about carb adjustments relate more to the fact that with the exception of the choke and idle fuel mix, I didn't adjust or measure anything (just did an R&R on all the carb parts in the kit). I also have a mostly compatible spare carb ready for rebuild (throttle shaft is wrong; it came from a manual trans truck and has no AOD TV cable provision), which I could rebuild and swap over/replace the incompatible throttle shaft/throttle body. Or I could open my existing carb and readjust/remeasure what I skipped.

One other thing: I adjusted the idle fuel mix by maximizing idle vacuum. On feedback carb trucks, is that the correct way to adjust such?

Edit- found the 1985-1986 fuel system book. Referring to such. Edit: no mention of the idle mix screw or choke adjustments... although the sample under hood sticker happens to be for my application, and mentions that neither is adjustable due to having a feedback carb. Did I mess up by adjusting them?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Hopefully Bill will be along to comment as he knows far more than I. But have you found the 1982 Emissions section on carburetion? https://onedrive.live.com/View.aspx?resid=80736256535317EF!31874&authkey=!AFiAlxbipPm387k

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Gary, that one is also hosed, I found the same sequence of pages several places and quit trying to find the idle setting procedure. First thing that needs to be done VERY IMPORTANT is the find out if the computer system is even functioning. I covered the quick sanity checks previously. Added to that is see if the spark advance is taking place with the SPOUT connected after setting it to 10° BTDC with the SPOUT disconnected.

I may have the correct emissions diagnostic manual for his truck, I will check shortly.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

On the choke adjustment, most of the feedback carbs have a tab or slot on the choke thermostat cover to "lock" it in place. There is a procedure for setting idle mixture, and if it is anything like what I had to deal with at the Dodge dealership I worked at, it will either require a propane enrichment or even a combustion analyzer.

Idle speed, there should be (somewhere, maybe in the emission manual) a base idle RPM, with either the idle speed control fully retracted or disabled. This is the setting to prevent dieseling. The noise you may be hearing when you shut it off could be the idle speed motor retracting to allow the throttle to close fully.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

The ECU is functional... I've verified that several times! If I wasn't getting SPOUT (or were in limp mode), trust me, I'd know. Very distinct difference in idle based on experiences with setting the base timing.

I did see that the idle mix procedure is in the book... at the very end. Requires a propane tool and a precision tachometer. I also found a procedure on another site that doesn't require propane but does require a Tach (translation: I need to pony up and upgrade my instrument cluster; I'm not keen on aftermarket tachometers for a "stock" build). The "maximize vacuum" method must only be for non-feedback carbs?

Nothing on the choke... so I'll leave my setting alone. The choke does open all the way when running warm, and I'm not having cold start issues, so I figure it's set correctly.

---

Pulled the carb last night and readjusted everything. Found the following issues:

-Float was way off on both sides of the travel. Took a lot of digging to find the spec for this (as all the spec lists I found were for the YF, not the YFA); for 1977+, it's 29/32" for the high side, and 1 5/8" for the low side. The high side was low (float valve opening early); the low side was too high after adjusting the former.
-Metering rod was slightly off.
-I rediscovered that the check ball and weight for the accelerator pump didn't match the drawings (two balls instead)... and lost both by accident. Luckily, I had the spare carb (which is a corrosion filled basket case, and has a factory blocked off accelerator pump), and it had the correct ball and weight, which I moved over.

Reinstalled. Driving it today; so far, it isn't worse... better I can't say since I haven't driven it enough to see if it is any different at highway speeds.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

I think you may have made major progress. The two balls in the accelerator pump circuit could cause problems as w/o the weight the bottom ball probably wouldn't seal. And a leak there can really make the mix rich.

I'm anxious to see what you find at highway speeds.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Hard to say... more of the "stuck in kickdown" issue.

Which prompted me to remember how I adjusted the TV cable last time... and dicked it up royally. What should happened was running a KOEO test beforehand to retract the throttle motor (which I did), and then adjust to no slack (which I didn't do, instead thinking letting the return spring tighten it all the way was right). As a result, it was WAY too tight... Duh!

Readjusted it, and now I have working OD again. It seemed to be too loose though, so I've made it a hair tighter and will retest tomorrow.

---

Side note: I plan to do my first oil change at 1500 miles. Right now I'm at around 1000.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

Glad you found and fixed that. If the AOD has a weakness it is in the way that is adjusted. Off very far can cause serious problems.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

AOD cable adjustment, I put a section in on it, but, the AOD is a lot like the old GM Hydra-Matics on throttle adjustment, too tight and it will either not get into OD or is hyper sensitive to throttle, kicking down at the least throttle. Too loose and it will shift (and slip) super early. There are special gauges for adjusting it, but, shift "feel" is a good test, shift 2-3 is your test point, if it is early and soft, tighten the cable (move the outer casing away from the carb) if it is late and hard, loosen the cable. 2-3 should be firm, but not slam. It is a purely mechanical gear, no torque converter, 3-4 should normally be around 45 mph under normal driving.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

That's the plan and what I've done. Been taking it for drives, and while I doubt my fuel economy improved, the driveabilty did. Today, I only had to force it into OD a handful of times on rolling hills cruise driving (at 65mph).

More stuff coming/done:

-Returning the "new" ECU under warranty... the erroneous KOEO faults, to me, condemn it. Old ECU runs just as well, and I do wonder if the EGR issues were causing my weird KOER faults. Don't know, will look into that later.

-In a somewhat successful attempt to squealch noise, I ran dedicated power wires for the CB and Radio from the battery (off a 30A inline fuse) and installed a relay to ignition control the ignition input and CB, which are powered through the relay from one of the dedicated power wires (the other is the battery/main power to the radio).

-Pulled the dash pad because I wanted to see if I could get my buzzer working... she's gone. And as you all already know, unobtainium. Forget that.

-Finally replacing a faulty headlight/dimmer switch. My dome light force on has never worked, and the dimmer is always dim-ish... not sure if the latter is normal, but I found a NOS wells one for <$10 shipped, so time to fix it.

-Best offered down a 1983 instrument cluster with Tach (6K) and Trip Odometer for $135 shipped. I'll be repainting the gauge needles... Which is a better color: Orange or Red? It's from a truck with a stick, but all I need to do to convert it is pop out a filler piece? Or will I need to move the gauges and board to my old casing? Will be fun rolling back (or rolling forward) the Odometer to match my current value... I've tried this before with one of my Ranger Odometers (tried to roll back the one from my wrecked one to put in the replacement, it sorta worked).

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

You are really making progress.

On the gauge needles, my experience is captured here: Documentation/Interior/Painting Gauge Needles. And yes, you take out the filler panel and put in the indicator for the auto tranny, and then run the little cable to the shift lever.

As for the odometer, you might want to look at the instructions here: Documentation/Electrical/Gauges and then the tab called Odometer Reset.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

1986F150Six

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

ratdude747 wrote

-Pulled the dash pad because I wanted to see if I could get my buzzer working... she's gone. And as you all already know, unobtainium. Forget that.

Seatbelt buzzer?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Ford-E43B-10B924-AB-Seat-Belt-Light-Relay-Timer-Warning-Alarm-Buzzer/400951555295?fits=Year%3A1984%7CMake%3AFord&epid=1328251434&hash=item5d5a9334df:g:1TAAAOSwT6pVmXeD

85lebaront2

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

Damn, I'll have to look and see If I have one, I put one on my wife's cousin's Chevy G-30 van wired to the rear courtesy light and running light circuits so if you opened the rear doors with the lights on it would buzz.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by 1986F150Six

Found and bought... How'd I miss that?

Headlights are a different buzzer that, being an XL, I don't have? Or is that part of this module too?

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Thanks. No project is ever finished.

I knew there was something on needle painting around here... Bought some of the tester's orange, as that seems to be a good fit. I don't care about an exact clone, just something better than the shades of cream everything but the shift indicator is.

I figured the manual cluster had a "dummy indicator" in it... That's how the ranger ones are (I've had both the bullnose and ranger clusters out, just never seen a manual bullnose one before).

Wow, that's an easy reset procedure. And now I know why rollback fraud was such an issue back then... then again, with only 5 digits, there isn't as much to fluff.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

1986F150Six

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

In reply to this post by ratdude747

ratdude747 wrote

Found and bought... How'd I miss that?

Headlights are a different buzzer that, being an XL, I don't have? Or is that part of this module too?

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Many things have happened, and I'll write them up when I have time and motivation.

That said, I do have the following info:

The new cluster is in. Had some issues come up, but I have a tachometer now. Idles warm around 600rpm, OD cruise is around 1500-1600. Power and torque curves seem to be roughly correct.

Rigged a set of test leads to measure the feedback solenoid signal today. Was getting feedback signal, And it was varying as expected in terms of duty cycle.

As an experiment, I reinstalled the old feedback solenoid. Resulted in a rough idle, which was fixed by doing a "max vacuum" readjustment of the idle mix (needed to add fuel). Will see what if any help/hurt that is.

Changed the oil and filter at 1600 miles. No metal in the oil or in the filter (I opened the can).

May be having drain back issues with the AOD. Took several seconds to get drive when I pulled our of lunch at work. Weird... Time for a fluid and filter job? I need to check the fluid level, it was fine the last time I checked.

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

Gary Lewis

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Administrator

It appears that you are making progress and, as Jim says, progress is good. And you are peeling the onion. Keep up the good work.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ratdude747

Re: Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

Not so fast...

Idle was rough again this morning... stalled on me driving to work. Reset the fuel mix to 1.5 turns past bottom out, and it won't idle at all (stalls within 10 seconds).

Unless there's a better suggestion, I'll swap the feedback solenoids back over lunch break. Good thing I kept the part and tool in the truck...

1984 F150: 300 L6, AOD, RWD. EEC IV / TFI, Feedback Carter YFA Carb. Stock everything but radio (for now).

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