Cab upgrades

In your situation, you donn't need to pay that much attention to cabinet figures of the speaker driver.  yes .2 is very small.  This particular speaker is designed mainly as a midrange/midbass for systems utilizing a sub.  While you do have a sub, your system is going to be utilized in a different way, we are going with a more of a fullrange approach

Your box, i already know it is to big for the manufacturers suggestions and have run my own figures from the speakers specs.  you want the bigger box, this partly the reason i told you to seal off the ports.  our aim with the larger box is to accentuate the mid to low frequencies these speakers can actually do this is what is going to give you the big fill that you want.  Utilizing the larger box is going to give you what is called " cabinet doubling" the lower tones will be in effect doubled.  we're not talking about earth shaking bass here.   For years and years speaker manufacturers have been trying to get rid of the speaker box sound, yes the box does have a sound and is one of the main reasons speaker boxes have gotten so small.   In your situation, you want the sound of that box.   lets get a bit off track here.  in a sub woofer system, a typical one anyway, the stereo speakers only do certain frequencies and the sub does only the bass frequencies.  The end result is a giant hole in the sound, this hole is what we are going to eliminate.  These types of speakers " musical instrument type " will operate in anything, sealed, ported, open back, or just hanging in a door or under the package shelf of a car.  When you put these types of speakers into boxes, the smaller the box gets, the smaller the bass gets if this makes any sense.  Speakers of this type when placed in a box require a larger box for the lower frequencies they can do.  our goal is to get these speakers to double around 85 to 120 hz.  This is the frequency area where the hole occours.     I would leave everything as is until you get them.  once you get them, if you feel you want less upperbass/mid bass, you just stuff the cabinets and that will take care of it, there is some other tweaking we can do as well, but we have to get them and in the boxes first.

The interior of a vehicle is a horrible environment for audio, playing by the rules is going to end up giving unpleasent results.  Furthermore.  Your polks, just like mine hange in a door which is so so wrong, but we have no choice.

Box design has to be paid close attention to when doing subwoofer's or full range speakers that will be doing full bass, and even then, there is a wide margin.  When designing a box and determining it's volume, you use a figure called the box q.   this isnt a spec given by the speaker manufacturer, this is a figure you use to determine how flat you want the bass, i go with a higher q because i like my  upperlow and midbass to be accentuated a bit, this is what gives you the Big sound like you had with the Kenwood and Cerwin vega's you had.

Thanks George.

I guess I was more intrigued by how those tiny 'volumes' were arrived at.

I totally understand what you are saying about a bigger box giving more bass.
I've spent many, many hours (pre-computer) tuning airboxes and two stroke expansion chambers.
Iterating , to get the wavefront where and when I wanted it.

It's all audio harmonics, after all.
And a larger box is going to reverberate at a lower frequency.

Yea, i had to look at that box volume figure a few times and then realized what they are doing.  In my speakers at home, i have a 5" mid/high and is in an internal cabinet about the same size.  

"your system is going to be utilized in a different way, we are going with a more of a fullrange approach"

Ok, fair enough.
I understand these instrument speakers are incredibly efficient.
But I'd feel I'm not taking advantage of that if I end up stuffing the cabinet to muffle them.

I had the full on 1,000W Punch system in my '85 GT way back when.
I also replaced window seals, like every time I replaced my tires...  
But this is not that.

Thankfully

You suggested my other option was a pair of the same speakers I already have in the doors, or that Brutus was getting a pair of those DB's in 6x9.
Maybe this is a more balanced and cohesive approach?
Although their SPL isn't as high as the Daytons, I know the 8" Mobile Monitors worked back there, and Polk's DB series aren't as expensive as the MM component series either.

I assume ellipsoid speakers are just a compromise form factor to get a speaker to fit in a car, because if they had other advantages we'd see them in home stereo cabinets all over.  ???

So, I guess now I'm questioning my sanity.    
Am I taking a chance on something for their possibilities, while the audiophile is going in a different direction?

Or does Brutus' higher quality amp pair better with the Polk speakers, and I need speakers with stiffer cones to get the most out of the lower quality radio I've chosen?

Jim;  I'm going back and fourth myself, dont feel bad, it's just what happens.  The possibility of having to stuff the box will not muffle the bass, if the box would have to be stuffed, it would be for restricting back preasure on the spaker to keep it from knocking is all, but if this were to happen, we would put a coil and capacitor on them to restrict the very low end of those speakers.

Given the Polk 6.5's are about the same price, the 6x9's a bit more. But if you haven't ordered anything yet, lets consider them and what you will get comparitively.

From our discussions, i've learned you know what you are doing with a speaker box, this is a good part of our battle here..

If it were me, and remember, this is just my opinion I would go with the polk 6x9's or even the 6.5's, but me, i would do the 6x9's..   As i've told you before, i don't like subwoofers, but they do have there place.  Just to let you know, i am also a keyboard player and have worked in recording studio's and have even engineered some some things.

Here is 1 of them
https://youtu.be/SO5AvP9Ig8c

This will give you a good idea of how i hear and what i aim for.

Ok, so why the 6x9's?
First and foremost, going with the 6x9's or the 6.5's, either of these speakers are going to have the same sonic signature as your door speakers

Second:  using the 6x9's in the box is going to give you some decent respectable bass that will extend down as far as the speakers can go.  This is going to give you a nice complete full range sound, your bass will come from everywhere and not just from the sub.

The term subwoofer and its actual true meaning has been well lost decades ago.  A real subwoofer is designed to augment what your full range speakers can't do.  A true subwoofer is a speaker that can deliever frequencies below 40 hz. and the correct setup for a true subwoofer is for that speaker to only do frequencies from 40 hz down.  The music we listen to does not have any frequencies down here and what ends up  happening is the bass ends up being boomey and muddy  As time went on, speaker boxes and drivers became smaller and smaller and then started to come with another woofer in a seperate box that is now called and refered to as a subwoofer.  It ends up sounding " small " and with a giant hole in the sound in the upper bass/low mid's.

Putting 6x9's in the box is going to probably give you much more detailed bass then the sub can give you.  I like my woofer speakers to " talk " somewhat which is why i only use a coil on them and no capacitor, when a woofer talks, it will give you the lower octives of a male voice and the upper octives of a bass guitar in a much fuller and richer way.   Sounds will come from everywhere, and nowhere at the same time if this makes any sense.
Using a sub as the main portion of your bass, the bass frequencies will eminate from where the sub is located and you will not have the fullness of the upper bass tones.

In either way, going witht he polks or the Dayton's, you will get the full sound you desire, but if you decide to go with the polks, it will make the bass tones much richer, fuller and dynamic and will have a better overall tonal balance and by going this way, you would lower the crossover frequency on the sub and be able to make it do what a sub is supposed to do, the frequencies the main speakers cannot.  Going with the Dayton's, you will need a little more upper bass on the sub to fill what the dayton's cannot do

Well it seems the 6x9's are indeed the way I should go.
"Richer, fuller and more dynamic, with better overall balance" sounds good to me!

"Subwoofer" in my mind is what punches you in the solarplexus and rattles your cage.
Which is why I keep referring to this thing as a "Sub" sub....

I know I don't have the power to drive massive speakers.
And I'm not 20 anymore, either...

Like I said, I'm no audiophile, which is why I ask questions, and listen to the answers.
I don't have my mind made up and just looking for affirmation.

Good luck with Laura, the unwanted houseguest.
 
You and Nick stay safe!

So, you mastered or mixed Book of Love's "Pretty Boys", or just remixed the extended version?

What a huge time for dance clubs.
Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order...  
Really got the place hopping

My friends Adrian and Andy were a DJ tag team back then.
I remember hauling tons of records (4-5 handtrucks stacked 5 crates deep) to their gigs.
Now you could fit more than that on a microSD (in FLAC, if you wanted)

I mastered both the original and the extended. the extended is merely both songs as they appear on the album  I only did Tubular Bells/Pretty boys and pretty girls, the rest of the record was done by someone else.  They wanted me to do the whole album, but record contracts and all that mumbo jumbo kept me from doing it.  The band fought the producer to get mine on the record, they were not happy at all with the production.  I got to hear it right after it was recorded and i know why they didn't like it.   When i was listening ot the multitrack i started messing around at the board and changed some things and recorded it. and it ended up on the album for which i was not paid for.  When the album came out it sold fairly well so when it was time for the 12" extended, they had the power then to tell them they wanted me to do it.  that one i was paid for.  The version you heard is just as it appears on he record, but it's 2 songs, Tubular Bells and Pretty boys and pretty girls.  They run together on the album, thats one of the things i changed when i mastered it.  I still have copies of the tapes and some other mixes i've done of it.

I'm glad you are thinking of going with the 6x9's.  I think it's going to sound much better, but like me, i'm trying to do everything as cheaply as possible yet good.  The Daytons would sound good, very good, but the polks  are going to really make that thing sound nice. but get ready, i've seen your box, they could possibly have better bass then the sub.  Polk has very good bass and can be driven with medium power amps.  Jim, dont be foole'd by this watts BS.  i checked the specs on your sony, it is putting out 45 watts and 45 watts is no joke.  Once you get over 60 watts your sound begins to deminish

The varnish was dry, so I broke down and cut the holes.

Ive had that pair of Alpines sitting new the box for years. (Pulled them from a wreck on its way to the shredder)

The Polk's are definitely on the agenda!

I think these need more than the Sony, they're rated 85 RMS and 300 max, but I just want to hear it with some fill!  

Okay, I made a little progress with my truck today.

I worked a bit on the spare tire carrier.

I finished up the new front for my speaker box -and installed some sub-optimal speakers for the time being.

I cleaned down my firewall and put insulation in front of the cowl.

And I removed a rusty brake line and ordered a coil of copper/nickel that will easily reach all the way to the hose in the rear.

Dug out my Mity-Vac,  benders and line wrenches, but can't find my reverse flaring tool.









Lights on:

stick the alpines in there and see what you can get.  cant hurt, you may love it

cab's lookin good

Oh, they're in the truck already.

But, I want a cohesive system.
So I'm going to swap them out for the DB's at the first opportunity.

I guess tomorrow I will have to play with balance and EQ.


George, I really appreciate your advice.
And thank you for all the times we enjoyed that mix!

You are very welcome  Let me know how it goes.

I still mess around with music, mainly playing.  Here is my youtube channel you can see my ugly mug

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBG9HYQB_Ad_yR1vFKDk7KA/videos

Subscribed, with bells on!  

Looks good, Jim.  Let us know how the insulation helps?

And the lights really look great!  I have to do that one of these days - once a few other "upgrades" get done.

Very cool. The Hot Butter one is a blast.

I forgot to mention I've been sizing up the lower steering shaft too.

I figure 'while I've got the welder out.....'

But I wish a replacement 'rag joint' wasn't $40.
Seems a shame to go there, just to cut the spline off and toss it away.

But I don't want to use my old one on the off chance I muff it and am stuck with NO steering to put back on.

The upper end, I can make the D into a flattened circle easy enough with the die grinder.
And, I think pinch is fine instead of through bolt.

But getting that spline on square and solid with absolutely no chance of melt through or spatter is probably a job better suited to the MIG, not the fcaw.

I will finish up the tire carrier this morning.  

Let me see what I have in the way of a rag joint.