Cab upgrades

I very well might turn it to 11!

Not just for Spinal Tap, but Zepplins Black Dog, and Motorhead and... NEED to be loud.

(I wonder how I blew the Polk's to shreds? 😉)

Bad news on the sway bar bits.  But it looks like you solved the problem.

And I see what you did on the seat release.  

As for the speakers, I'm no longer an audiophile, but there are at least two ratings that need consideration.  One is the max power one that you mentioned, and another is speaker sensitivity.  This article does a decent job of explaining that.

To say it another way, a massive resistor would be able to safely handle a large amp, but as you couldn't hear anything it wouldn't be very useful.  Instead you are looking for a speaker that is good at turning power into sound.  And the better a speaker is at doing that the lower its power rating needs to be.

Also you need to consider the frequency range.  But you have a woofer and a sub-woofer, so you don't need to go too low.  And if you are talking rear speakers you don't really need a lot of highs.  But you want an even frequency response from something like 100 to 10 Khz.

Nope, I only have the cute little "Sub" sub.
That's why I was looking at mid's for the speaker box.

I think the 6 1/2" door speakers will be fine for vocal frequencies and such, but I'm pretty sure I want 'fill' on the rear channels.

Thanks for the link!
I'll check it out next.

Still open to opinions and advice...

Well, that was an informative read, but I'm obviously not looking for "The Loudest Speakers"

Maybe I'm looking to get the most from my speakers, given I don't need to be deafend
(my tinnitus is bad enough from all the firearms, explosions, rockets and racing)
And with that, I think I have a better idea of sensitivity.

So I need to go back to my list, redefine my frequency range and winnow out a shortlist.
I also need to look at more mid's, although my head unit allows me to EQ each pair of channels separately,

Is there anything inexpensive modern electronics can't do???  

I'm sure I'd be much better off playing to a speakers strong suit rather than hobbling it trying to bend it to my whims.

And, there's this from Retro:  https://www.retromanufacturing.com/blogs/news/watts-rms-vs-peak-max

I'm having a hard time accepting this "watts RMS" thing.

I understand RMS wrt AC voltage.
It's simply the average area under the sinusoidal wave, or the peak divided by 1.4142.

But watts is a measure of work, or energy consumed.
And that obviously varies greatly when we're talking about an analog audio waveform.

I can possibly see it as a measure of potential continuous power delivered by a device like an amplifier.
But wrt speakers, is it what they can absorb endlessly without killing the coil?
Is it what is their 'optimal' input?

I still can't seem to find a coherent answer, and how this applies to what my head unit has to deliver.

I need to do some more digging, as I'm easily confused (when I already have a solid understanding of the term buried in my mind)
But this is not that...

I don't have my head around it either.  But one thing that hasn't been said, and which I think is true, is that the ratio between RMS and peak depends on the shape of the waveform.  If all music was nice pure sine waves the square root of 2 would apply.  But when you get into multi-instrument sound you have percussion laid on top of guitar, which is on top of voice, and nothing is a pure sine wave.

So, how do they measure amps and speakers?  Is it with a nice sine wave?  I'm guessing so as that's the only "constant" out there.  If so, does everyone use the same frequency?

On what hurts a speaker, I think there are several things.  First, I think they are limited to the maximum excursion they can handle on an ongoing basis.  And that's probably a function of what surround they are using.  Another is how much heat the voice coil can take.  And then there's deformation of the cone, which would ultimately cause it to fail.

This I get.

I understand the power correction factor of RMS voltage, but like George said, speakers are a constantly changing ohm.

I also understand the limits of materials, and how amplitude affects the coil and diaphragm.

We know what happens to an automotive coil if too much current is applied, or for too long (dwell)
We can also analogize throw with what happens to wires when too much potential (voltage) is applied.
The insulation is not enough to contain the charge (or 'throw')

But Root Means Squared with regards to what a speaker is rated???
I'm lost.....

Okay
I'm waiting until 10 to get out my impact and reinstall the sway bar.
But it's SO humid the gloss paint is flashing.

I'm also dropping my spare tire so I can rehab the support and use it to pull some shrub stumps.

I appreciate the conversation about audio.
Like I said, 'i know NOTHING!' (Shultz)

If this were radio, microwave or optical frequencies I'd be much better versed.

I'm beyond the limits of my understanding of audio equipment ratings.  Maybe someone else can help us.

Use the spare tire support to pull stumps?  Or, maybe, use the spare tire, which is the subject of the sentence, to pull stumps.  Yep, surely that's correct.

Got the Sgt Shultz reference.  

And now I seem to have lost my back brakes.  

I guess ill be under there tomorrow, when the sun comes up.

Ok guys, sorry i haven't been following along.  Let me give a brief explanation of Watts.  Watts much like horsepower is nothing without current and torque respectively.   Watts is heat, quite a bit of an amplifiers rated watts is generated as heat, hence why heat sinks are required for amplifiers, to dicipate the heat.   I am going to use the factory radio in Brutus as an example.  Brutus has premium sound, his radio is rated by ford to be 25 watts per channel.  The radio uses SP600 amplifier chips.  The maximum output of an SP600 is 25 watts.  this is a maximum and is unusable.  The SP600 is more like 18 watts RMS, if that.    In he real world, Brutus's radio is in reality somewhere between 15 to 18 watts.    Jim, your sony is rated at 45 watts per channel.  It is probably a strong 30.  Now i will take a strong 30 over a weak 45 anyday of the week.  RMS watts is something they came up with in the 70's to keep people from fabricating the truth about watts.  RMS means root means square, and the only time this means anything is if in the owners manual specifications if there is a line that says RMS watts continious =xxx both channels driven into an 8 ohm load.  or in the case of car audio RMS watts continious = xxx both channels driven into a 4 ohm load.    If you do not see this written like this esu, the claims are bs.     Now that i have consufsed you enough, let me see if i can explain some of
Does a 100 watt amplifier play 10 times louder then a 10 watt amplifier?   The answer is no, it only plays twice as loud because a 100 watt amplifier is only 3 db louder then a 10 watt, and if you remember what i told you about speaker spl, 3 db is twice as loud.    Now here is where it gets tricky.  I already explained SPL to you, but if anybody else is reading this, i will do another brief explanation.  Any given speaker has a spl rating, spl is sound preeasure lvel, what this means is how  loud the speaker will play with a microphone 1 meter away from it picking up 1 watt of pink noise..  they generate pink noise through the speaker and however loudly the microphone picks it up is how loud the speaker will play with 1 watt.   This figure tells you how easy or hard it is to drive.  ( remember 3 db higher is twice as loud )
now.  a typical speaker is about 93 db now a days.  typical subwoofer speakers are 89 db, typical pa speakers are 102 db   ( personally i like high efficency and low wattage )  ok what does this mean.  you have your 10 watt amp and you have your 100 watt amp that is twice as loud.   you connect your typical 93 db speaker to it and it will sound nice, but when you get up in volume you will notice it start to run out of steam.  take the same speaker and connect it to the 100 watt amp, and although only twice as loud, it is more stable, it has a better more powerful power supply, so it will make the same speaker sound much better and have a much fuller sound at louder volumes.    Now, take the subwoofer speaker, connect it to the 10 watt amp.  you will not get very much out of it at all, take the subwoofer speaker and connect it to the 100  watt, it will do a bit better, but the amp will strain and run out of steam and not put out much sound.  it will drive it, but it will beat the amplifier up very badly and will not sound very good..  Now take the 100 watt pa speaker, connect it to the 10 watt amp and it will blow all of them away in volume and stability.  why, quite simply this.  remember the regular speaker at 93 db is a tad over twice as loud as the subwoofer speaker, the pa speaker is 3 times louder then the regular speaker.  Very very easy to drive and the amplifier runs nice and cool because it does not have to strain to drive it.    My system at home is a pair of warfdale speakers from 1960, they can handle a whopping 15 watts and are very efficient, 100 db.    speakers back in this day were very efficient because the old vacuum tube amps that i love so much were very low power yet the stuff from the 60's is way louder then anything today.    some of the kids i work with that have boom systems in there trucks came over one night to hang out with the old farts, one of them got to talking about how hard his boom hits.   I looked at nick, i smiled and looked at them and said, come in the back.    went to youtube and asked what song he wanted to hear.  it was some rap song, i have no clue, i started playing it and all of there jaws hit the floor.  " man that shit hits hard, that shit hits harder then mine.  what kind of subs you got"  - me  I dont have subs, i dont do subs, he other one look at me and say you must hve serious power then.  me.  no, 15 watts

ok so if i haven't lost you or made you go screaming away from the screen, it boils down to this.
in the 60's amplifiers were lowpower, the speakers were very efficeient and were housed in very larg boxes and used very large drivers.
in an effort to cut down space and to get supposed better bass response, the speaker box size began to shrink in the 70's as the amplifier power went up to essentially give you the same amount of sound as we had in the 60's.
Fast forward to today.  we have small subwoofer boxes and small speakers with very high powered amplifiers that again only give you the same volume as the former but again the speaker box size is smaller.

the smaller a speaker is and i am talking about a woofer, not a sub, but a woofer, there is a difference, the smaller the woofer, the harder it is to drive period and is why we need watts and lots of them.

In the end watts is just a game  its just like horsepower
for remember

Horsepower sells cars
Torque wins races
and there is no replacement
for cubic inch displacement

Watts means nothing.   you want a good strong stable amplifier no matter the watts.  stability and current are key.  When i was playing that rap song for the kids i was dumping an 85 watt amplifier into those 15 watt speakers.  Why didn't i blow them.  my 85 watt amplifier is very very stable, very clean, very strong and does not clip, i can do it.     Nick built the amp for the ranchero, it is 175 watts, it is very strong, very stable and does not clip, the speakers can handle 70 watts.   It's just line an engine.  you can have all the power  you want, but with out the torque you have no stability

now i'm not saying for anybody to go  out and overpower there speakers, my amps are of the highest quality and can get away with it.
Watts is a good tool to pick what kind of system you are trying to go for.   Jims system is going to be about what you would find in a good top of the line factory system.  its going to be nice and clear, and you will be able to get loud with it.  45 watts is is a good general area where amplifiers are going to sound there best.  pretty much anything under 100.  once you get over 100 it just dosent sound good anymore.  more semiconductors need to be used and diminishes the sound.    

i know this is confusing and is as general as i can get, but please ask questions, themore you ask, the better and easier it will be to understand this.  

George, I counter your wall of text with this:    

Audio & DSP Section
High Power Class-D Amplifier: A built-in class-D amp delivers huge power with minimal interference, for audio that's crystal clear even at its loudest. Circuitry and components are carefully laid out for low-noise, highly efficient electric power transmission. Placing the power block close to the input and amp minimizes power loss, while electrolytic capacitors ensure precise, responsive bass. An oversized heat sink with an optimally designed fin structure ensures efficient ventilation for your amp.

Notes:
Because of its high-powered amplifier design, the Sony DSX-GS80 does require that a separate +12V constant power wire is run to the battery with a separate inline 15A fuse in vehicles with lower than a 15A fuse protecting the factory radio. Check out the "Accessories" tab for wiring kit.
This Sony receiver's built-in high-powered amplifier isn't compatible with car audio systems where an outboard factory amplifier will remain active.
CTA2006 Compliant: The power specifications for the Sony DSX-GS80 are compliant with the CTA2006 Mobile Amplifier Power Testing and Measurement standards from the Consumer Technology Association (CTA). These standards were developed as a way to equitably compare power specs from model to model and between manufacturers. The power output specs for the DSX-GS80 are as follows:

Continuous Power Output: 45 watts RMS x 4 channels (at 4 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, 1% THD-N)
Peak Power Output: 100 watts x 4-channels (400 total watts)
Subwoofer Direct Connect: With the Subwoofer Direct and 2-ohm Speaker Load option, you can hook up a mono subwoofer directly to the built-in class-D amplifier together with four speakers. Unlike conventional head units, the DSX-GS80 has amplifier power to spare, making it capable of simultaneously driving a subwoofer and a full car speaker system, including front and rear speakers. The unique 2-ohm load selector delivers high power without risking amp or speaker damage. Channel 1 delivers power and signal to the front left and rear left speakers, while channel 2 delivers power and audio signal to the front right and rear right speakers. Channel 3 delivers power and audio signal to your mono subwoofer (channel 4 is not used).

6ch/5V Preamp Outputs + Sub Control: The Sony DSX-GS80 is equipped with 5-volt Front, Rear, & Sub pre-amp outputs giving you the ability to connect external amplifiers to your car stereo system. The unit's subwoofer preamp output is non-fading. You can adjust the subwoofer preamp output's volume level independently from the head unit's main volume control from -10 to +10 in 1dB increments. In addition, you can select the phase of the subwoofer output from Normal or Reverse.

High-Pass & Low-Pass Crossovers: The front & rear speaker outputs offer a selectable high-pass crossover frequency of 50Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, or Off. You can also adjust the slope (1/2/3) of the high-pass crossover. The subwoofer preamp output features a low pass filter with a selectable cut-off frequency of 50Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, or Off. You can also adjust the slope (1/2/3) of the low-pass crossover.

EQ10: Select from a variety of EQ presets like R&B, Rock, Pop, Dance, Hip-Hop, Electronic, Jazz, Soul, Country, Custom, or Off (Flat). The Custom mode allows you to make your own equalizer settings. You can adjust the level (+/-6dB) of 10 different frequency bands - Band 1 (32Hz), Band 2 (63Hz), Band 3 (125Hz), Band 4 (250Hz), Band 5 (500Hz), Band 6 (1khz), Band 7 (2khz), Band 8 (4kHz), Band 9 (8kHz), and Band 10 (16kHz).

Digital Time Alignment (DTA): This unit can change the localization of sound by delaying the sound output from each speaker to suit your position, and simulate a natural sound field with the feeling of being in the center of it wherever you sit in the car. You can choose from Front Right, Front Left, Front Center, or Off. You can also set the subwoofer distance of the subwoofer to Near, Normal, or Far. You can also further fine tune the listening position from -3 to +3.

DSO & DSEE: Sound waves are directional, so if your speakers are in your doors or under your dash, the audio may seem muddy or unclear. Dynamic Stage Organizer (DSO) adjusts the signal, improving the stereo positioning so music sounds like it’s coming from the dashboard. Digital Sound Enhancement Engine (DSEE) improves digitally compressed music files by restoring high frequencies lost in the compression process.

ExtraBass + RBE: Activate ExtraBass at the touch of a button for an instant, low-end boost. Unlike conventional bass boosters, ExtraBass minimizes distortion at all volume levels by automatically adjusting frequency and gain to their optimal positions. You can select between two settings for different intensities of bass boost. RBE (Rear Bass Enhancer) enhances the bass sound by applying the low-pass filter setting to the rear speakers. This function allows the rear speakers to work as a subwoofer even if there is no subwoofer connected.

ClearAudio+ & Loudness: ClearAudio+ reproduces sound by optimizing the digital signal with the Sony recommended sound settings. It automatically adjusts the head unit's EQ, ExtraBass, and DSO. Loudness reinforces bass and treble for clear sound at low volume levels.

Advanced Auto Volume (AAV) + Max Volume: This feature adjusts the playback volume level of all playback sources to the optimum level. The maximum volume level of the digital media receiver can be set between 30 and 50.



So, I do understand IxV=R
I understand that Db are logarithmic, and +3 DB is twice as loud
And that sound pressure level is what a microphone 'sees' when 1W of pink noise is played @ 1M.
And that I'll see clipping if a try to push this stereo to its (supposed) 100W per corner output.
THD is shown as 1%, but it's suffixed by 'N', whatever that means...

So, with that out of the way, I have this to say:
My hearing is shot. Too many aircraft, firearms, mortars, rockets, rock shows, drag cars, and grenades.
I don't need or want really loud, because my left channel is blown...
But I do want to hear loud music as it was intended, and I don't want tattered speakers in six months.

Objective:
Replace my rear channel speakers.

Questions:
What sort of frequency response should I be looking for, as rear channel 'fill'?
What sort of wattage rating should I be looking for -given the specs shown above- so I don't have a problem driving them but have enough headroom that I don't kill them?
Do you have any specific recommendations?


I've got a 460.
I know about displacement...  

I counter your long text with this.

Class D.  Dont want to step on anyone's toes, nor will i dawg anybody's equipment, BUT.   Yes Class D is very powerful, it is nothing more then a huge power supply constantly switching.  Is it loud, Yes, is it stable, yea somewhat, does it sound true, NO.    Class d is a way to get high power cheaply, nothing more, nothing less.  and yes it is more energy efficient..  i'll just leave it that.    in car audio we cant escape class d

Frequency response is relative, sort of like watts.  It just depends on what kind of music you listen to.  Music generally has its best bass in and around 60 hz which most can do rather well, some better then others, so as a general rule, a system that goes down to the 50's is fine.  Everything goes up to 20k even though none of us can hear above 15, and us older folks are lucky we can hear anything over 6k

wattage.  

The speakers you showed me are fine.  as long as the wattage rating on the speakers is higher then the wattage out of the amplifier you are good

Jim.  I like polk as far as car audio is concerned.  they have a wide range of speakers that are relatively easy to drive .  you dont want speakers that are to hard to drive, when you get down into hard to drive speakers you do loose the headroom.  As a general rule, most car speakers generally run around 90 to about 93 db.  which is plenty enough for your sony to drive.  

Jim   when it comes down to it, even though a speaker can handle say 100 watts, and the amp puts out a strong 40, you can still blow them.  it just depends on how loudly you listen.  Amplifiers even though are rated at 40 watts, if they have a strong enough power supply, they can instantaniously go up to well over 500 watts at any given moment.  It is clipping that destroys speakers.  You dont seam the type that would turn the volume all the way up so you dont have anything to worry about with that, but yes it can happen

Prior to Class D ( as far as the automobile is concerned ) we were stuck with relavtively low power, but our low power stuff sounded better, the only real thing class d did for us was give us power and no alternator whine.  Many today dont know about alternator wine like we did back in the day, but all the radio's and amps now use a switch mode power supply which gets rid of the alternator wine.  The switch mode power supply is what also gave us the ability to have more power, not only with class d, but all other classes as well.  The ranchero's amp that nick built is A/AB.  It is full class A to half power, then AB.  it would be total class A, but class A is low wattage, but the truest to form.  With the switch  mode power supply, we are not stuck with the 12 volts of the alternator like we were in the past.     In the past with us only being able to have 12 volts, we were generally stuck around 20 watts or so.  12 volts x 2 amp draw = 24 watts.    A switch mode power supply can supply anyvoltage that it wants to.  Example, the amp in the ranchero is running on over 300 volts at about a half amp.   I like the sound of high voltage.    the factory radio in brutus was one of the frist to use a switch mode power supply.  it uses it in the radio and tuner section and draws 26 volts