Gary Lewis

Just talked to the guy about the ‘90. Or, maybe I should call it a ‘45 as they cut the truck in half, right through the frame behind the cab. They are keeping the rear half and selling the front half. Said if it had trailing wheels it would pull itself around as they’ve plugged the transfer case output and the engine, tranny, and transfer case work fine. However, it is supposedly sold to someone how hasn’t come to get it nor paid yet. So we are going to give it a couple of weeks and. Then I’ll check back to see if it is still available. He’s asking $800, but I think he will take less as it has been listed for a month at this point. Not knowing where Chad’s truck is in Indiana, I picked Terre Haute and did the math. Almost 1200 miles round trip is about $250 in gas. Adding in a hotel room and meals makes paying the local guy $800 seem seem like a fair deal - and I can do it in half a day. Plus, there’s less to get rid of when the picking is done. But, there’s the issue of how to get it on my new trailer w/o rear wheels. Hmmm. So, Bill, what else do I need beyond what that ‘90 would have? And, how do the injectors mount on a 460?

So, are you saying the ‘90 would be as good as the ‘93 for what I want to do? Sure would be a lot easier and cheaper to get. I’ll call the guy to find out more about it.

I’ve heard about the wet paper approach, but not about using Wonder bread - which I think is probably the best use of it I’ve ever heard. 😈 (I grew up on that stuff, but after moving to England for two years and eating real bread I do not like it at all.) And, with the lathe I could turn a bolt or rod down to just fit pretty easily. So, I could give that a try today. Scott won’t be over until this eve so I can see if I can get it out and we’ll be ready to put things together when he gets here. All right, you talked me into it. 😬

Yes, propane/LPG does burn extremely cleanly, although with a bit less power. People I know that run it claim the engine oil comes out at 5000 or 6000 miles looking as clean as it went in. And, it doesn’t harm gaskets or seals. Here in Oklahoma we have an abundance of LPG and many companies, school districts, and local governments have converted their vehicles to it. And no one I’ve talked to has had anything bad to say about it - except for the limited availability. I think I recently heard that there are 5 LPG filling stations in the greater Tulsa area, as opposed to at least 5 gasoline stations in the little town we live in of 7,000 people. But if you have adequate filling stations there, then it would be a clean, green, and cheap fuel for your truck.

I told Scott about that trick, but explained that the times I’ve tried it the result was grease going everywhere. 😮 So we didn’t try it. But, if he doesn’t find the right tool we will try it.

Jim - Thanks for checking them out. As for descriptions, maybe I should include yours and add whatever we can find for the Rug Rats. 😉 And the T-19 does have a really low 1st - I got out and let Big Blue idle and pull down the sign at church. 🤡 I’ll check for such a chart.

This one is available a lot closer than Chad's: https://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/d/parting-out-1990-f250/6296119046.html. But what differences are there between a '90 F250 and a '93 F350? Are the harnesses different? You mentioned drive shafts, but the 350's have bigger u-joints. Remember, Dad's is a 150. So even the 250's drive shafts will be bigger and take different/bigger u-joints. Right? Yes, I'd really like to have a list so I can get my head around what I need, and how complex this will be. It doesn't have to be perfect the first round, but anything will get me started. Thanks!

We got Scott's truck apart this evening and found that it really wasn't the pressure plate that was bad. When 1/3 of the friction material is missing on the back side the pressure plate doesn't sit evenly and the fingers won't be even. So, he's to pick up a clutch kit tomorrow and we will install it tomorrow night. But, he's also to find a pilot bearing remover so we can replace that as well.

Beautiful!

Dan lives in lower, slower Delaware? Cool! Used to live just out of Wilmington and have been to the race in Dover many times. Wish I could have met Dan. What problems is he having with the engine? As for the EEC-V system, did you ever do the parts list on what it'll take? On the Core Tuning group, maybe I need to get to know Ben Head, for two reasons. First, to learn how to to crack the code. Second, to get him to come up to the show next year.

I don't have any experience with them, but have been around them. Do you have the conversion kits available there? There's an article here that explains it fairly well: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/131-0803-dual-fuel-propane-system-install/

In some conversations on the Classic Broncos forum (not the FTE Bronco forum) some people have made what I think is a good point, that aftermarket electronics might have some longer term risk to them. Sure, right now you can get all the support you need for a brand-new Baumann controller, probably more than for a 20 year old Ford system. But 20 years from now is the 20 year old Baumann or the 40 year old Ford going to be easier to troubleshoot and fix? Not an overwhelming argument, but might be worth considering. Interesting point. But, we would need to factor in that Bill is re-flashing the ECM’s to do SEFI as well as changing the shift points and harshness on the tranny. So, if an ECM went south and you had to replace it the engine would probably run and the transmission would shift, but not like it had with the old one. Tim had another point I forgot to mention. Since my build theme is “As Ford Could Have Done It”, why not use the EFI manifold off a Windsor?

Talked to Tim. He carries the Price Motorsport adapters for using a Cleveland intake with a tall-block 335 Series engine. But, he doesn't actually do the machine work to put injectors in them, although he did one time for another customer - apparently Dan Lee according to this article in Ford Muscle. And, here's how it was done. Not too difficult on a mill.

And here are a couple of pics from Bill of the E4OD in Darth. Darth's E4OD: T-Case Shifter on E4OD:

Taden - Didn't I tell you that you would get help on this forum?

Bill - You are using the Ford computer, reflashed, to run both the EFI and the tranny - right? If so, what would be your guesstimate in cost to replicate that setup? A Baumann controller is ~$800, and it doesn’t do EFI. I was initially reluctant to follow in your steps because I didn’t need the tranny part of it, and didn’t want to have an unknown injection setup while breaking in the engine. But, the engine is well and truly broken in and I now need the tranny controller. So, I would think your setup would work, even on a 400. I could have Tim tap his adapters that fit a 351C manifold to a raised-block M, and put the injectors there. As for the speedo, I think I have the electronic sensor that came with the BW1356, and if I remember correctly it has both a speedocable connection and an electrical connection. Wouldn’t that work?

Bill said that Chad Meador got him the following pictures and measurements from his 1993 F350 460/E4OD/4WD.: Front of case to mount pad is 30" Front drive shaft is 41-42" approximatelyShifter rod is 9" long and the shifter bolts to the side of the E4OD case which should put it in the correct location for Dad's truck. E4OD Crossmember: Front Driveshaft 1: Front Driveshaft 2: E4OD Length To Pad: Transfer Case Shift Rod: Transfer Case Shifter:

That’s one of the several reasons for creating the thread. I think the E4OD will be a popular conversion for folks with a 351M, 400, or a 460 as that and the C6 are the only two automatics that bolt to those engines. And while the E4 is bigger and requires an electronic controller, it makes up for that with both an overdrive and a lock-up torque converter, neither of which a C6 has. As some of you know, I had intended to put a ZF5 in Dad’s truck. In fact, I had one in there and have had it fully rebuilt during the resto. But the addition of Big Blue to the fleet has caused me to reconsider. Big Blue needs an OD and that ZF will bolt right in. Plus, a ZF is a slow-shifting truck transmission, and Dad’s truck deserves a quick-shifting tranny given its sportier nature. So, the plans changed. 😎

I don’t think we will need to resort to a 🔨 as we have things lined up pretty well at this point. My job today is to get the tranny jack and safety stand set up so we can roll the tranny/t-case combo back this evening when he gets here after work. Gonna be a late night. Oh, and I have to find a replacement u-bolt for one of the u-joints as one of them looks to have been cross-threaded. And, since both u-joints on the rear shaft have imprints of the bearings on the cross, those will be changed out in the project. As for the E4OD pics, I have looked at them. But, could you post them to the new E4OD For Dad’s Truck thread? That way we can keep the details in one place, and others can use it later. Thanks. 👌

Bill, Jim, and I are discussing bits and pieces of the plan to put an E4OD in Dad’s truck, and some of that is in the WHYDTYTT thread and some is in email. So I’m starting this thread to consolidate the info. One issue is the length of the E4, which is more than even the ZF, and that means the drive shafts have to be changed. And, since the E4’s mounting pad is several inches further back than either the C6’s or ZF’s that means a different crossmember is needed. Anyway, since I think an E4OD is the best automatic available for the bigger engines in these trucks, I hope to sort out all of those details in this thread for posterity.

I hope so! My dream is to drive this truck until I retire! Why stop then?

Do you think they are good enough for Dad’s truck? Obviously I have the radio bezel that Chris got me, but if I’m going Rosewood I’ll need a excellent instrument bezel. However, I don’t yet know which way I want to go on bezels, so......

Ford's transmission application pages are a bit of a dog's breakfast, with the transmission types and even the vehicles themselves scattered hither and yon such that it is hard to tell what was used in which vehicle. So I converted them to a spreadsheet and then sorted it by transmission, then by model, and then by year. And then I placed each of those on their own tab on the Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions page. Please see what you think. I'm not sure how helpful that is, but it is easy to see what vehicles had the ZF.

How big of a hammer do you have to use? We used a dead-blow hammer and it wouldn't come out. But we think we are in a position now where we have 10" of room to roll the tranny/t-case combo back, so that should be plenty to R&R the clutch.

Still not my truck, unless you count backing it out of the shop, but we did work on Scott's '78 a bit today. Pulled the clutch linkage off, which is pretty badly worn, and got the boot out of the way in order to see into the bell housing. When turning the engine over slowly we can see that some of the "fingers" of the pressure plate are not sticking out as they should be. IOW, it looks like the pressure plate is bad. But, that was the easy part. With the door sills, seat and belts/harnesses, accelerator pedal, and clutch linkage removed we got the floor mat out. That gave enough access to the floor that we got the boots for the shift levers off and then the transmission cover off. Now we had enough clearance to move the tranny back w/o having to remove the NP435's shift lever. Then we moved underneath, where we found the transmission crossmember to be a bear. Unlike the Bullnose crossmembers, this one bolts to the frame just below the cab, to the frame side and to the radious arm brackets. We ended up taking the radius arm brackets off in order to move the crossmember back far enough to let the tranny and t-case come back enough to R&R the clutch and pressure plate. Tomorrow we will support the tranny/t-case combo and roll them back enough to get to the clutch, et al.