Gary Lewis

Steve - How new are those injectors? I'm considering either having the ones I have refurbished or buying new ones, so....

I can't imagine needing more than the 24's that were in the F450's engine. This engine will be fairly stock, and will either continue to have the Eddy cam or something a bit stronger. So, next question: Should I buy new ones or have these refurbished? I've seen single new ones for about the same price as whole sets on eBay. And at $20/injector to refurb & balance, I wonder.......

Good point. Since I have the F3 heads I'll go with the matching intake - although those heads are currently mated to the earlier intake. Ok, next question: which injectors? I just pulled the ones out of the '95 F450's intake and they are F1TE-D5A's, but the ones in Huck's '90 intake are E8TE-B1C's. I assume they are both 24 lb/hr injectors. Both are blue. Is one better than the other? What size injector should I go back with?

Those would appear to be the proper size for my 460 in Big Blue! I'm not sure what injectors I want to go with, but yours are big for a 302.

The two plenums I have are indeed different: Huck's 1990 F250 shows RF-E8TE-9K461-DA and that should be part # E7TZ 9424-G Jim's 1995 F450 shows RF-F2TE-9K461-BA and that should be part # F3TZ 9424-E So, what's the difference? Which should I use? I've done some cursory Googling and didn't find anything definitive.

Hmmm? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NEW-1991-1994-FORD-F600-F900-FT600-900-GAUGE-CLUSTER-BACKING-F1HZ-10848-A/361902839908?hash=item5443171864:g:jHwAAOSwKfVXKzSU&vxp=mtr That looks different than ours. I'll have to pull one and look. But, Bill said that white header paint is the stuff to use, and a can of that would be lots cheaper than $63. And, it would be replicable (is that a word?) for others. Anyway, thanks!

As previously posted, Bill O'Neil of HiPo Parts has explained to me how the original paint on the needles of our gauges fluoresce best with light toward the high end of the spectrum, which is why the manufacturers used blue filters. But the blue filters cut down on the amount of light we get through - especially since most of them have gotten opaque. And, at the same time Bill says the fluorescent paint is pretty much dead within 10 years of being applied. In addition, Ford applied a white paint to the back of the mask that shields our eyes from the bulbs themselves, and the heat of the incandescent bulbs as well as dust and smoke has usually turned that white to brown - thereby reflecting even less light. So all of that contributes to really dim gauges at night. And the question becomes how to get the gauges bright again for our night-driving pleasure. Toward that end I am planning a series of tests to see what can be done and what works best. And since there are several aspects to the issue (fluorescent paint, light color, light intensity, and reflectivity) it looks like the tests need to be well-planned and scientific. Here are some of my thoughts, but I would appreciate yours: ENVIRONMENT: I'll set this up in the storm shelter in my shop where it is quite dark with the door closed. The test bed will be an extra instrument cluster, and I'll use my lab power supply set to 14.0 volts to ensure consistency. And I'll use my DSLR set on a tripod and put it in Manual mode so that the differing light levels will stand out. But, I should also put the camera in Shutter or Aperture mode for each test and capture the aperture or shutter speed the camera dictates for that shot as that will tell how bright the camera thinks the setup is. PAINT: I have several NOS gauges, and it is possible that their paint will still fluoresce, so I'll give them a try. And I have gauges that barely have paint on them. So I'll use a combo of NOS, old, and gauges painted with Testors and HiPo paints to see what differences I can detect. LIGHTING: There are actually at least five ways to approach getting the short wavelength blue light that will excite the paint: Clear incandescent bulbs with good filters. This would basically put it back stock. Blue-coated incandescent bulbs with no filters White or cool-white LED's without filters. Bill has some new cool-white LED's that he thinks are the perfect solution for our instrument lighting and is to get me a set. But my understanding is that LED's produce a very narrow spectrum of light while incandescents produce a very broad spectrum of light. So there is a difference in our perception of how bright things are with LED's vs incandescents. Further, the filters will work differently on the light from those different sources. White or cool-white LED's with filters. Blue LED's w/o filters. I have this currently on Big Blue and don't particularly care for it as everything is BLUE. MASK/REFLECTOR: My plan is to test one time with an old brownish mask and then with a freshly-painted one. But I don't see a need to test both of those in every combination. I plan to test a cluster with un-painted gauges, clear incandescent bulbs, and old filters as a starting point, and then make incremental changes from there. But only make one change at a time. What am I missing? What other lighting changes should be tested?

I can't explain the green. Perhaps it works fairly well and is "different"? As for the test, I'm still in the formulating stages. In fact, why don't we take this discussion to a new thread I'm working on .....

With Bill's explanation of the blue wavelength causing the paint to fluoresce the most, it is easy to see why the manufacturers went with blue light. But apparently the blue-tinted bulbs weren't available then or they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of having the filters made and creating places for them to clip in. Now that the filters have become opaque and blue bulbs are available, they are a nice solution to get blue-tinged light. You just need to paint the needles with fresh fluorescent paint.

I wonder if the blue LED's emit a much narrower frequency of light than the blue incandescents do. Big Blue's gauges are seriously BLUE, but perhaps the incandescents give a blue-shaded light that is more even?

Nor I, Vinny, nor I. Steve - I'm having a hard time believing that the injectors are too big. But it appears that way from the testing. And your theory that they weren't being given full pressure may be the key. Is there any way to turn your pressure down in order to test? I'm wondering if it is a case of the computer, because it was unplugged for a considerable period, having defaulted to a preset value of injector pulse width that is too long for those injectors. But, if the engine were able to be run for a bit then it might figure that out and reduce the pulse width. I don't know how the computer's pre-sets work, but I'm just thinking.

Jochen - What many of us have done is to remove the cluster and take out the blue filters that create blue light from incandescent bulbs. They tend to become opaque over time and reduce the amount of light that they pass. Removing them helps some, but it isn't "the fix" by itself. Next up is to replace the bulbs with bright LED's. That helps quite a bit, but there's a debate about which color is best. I'm running blue LED's in Big Blue (seems appropriate) but don't really like them, so I'm anxious to try Bill/HiPo Parts' new warm white LED's. I had several conversations with Bill via email yesterday. He hasn't gotten the quantity of those LED's he expected and is selling them rapidly - with rave reviews he said. But, I'm sure he's going to get me a set as we've agreed a test with the gauges this way: NOS: One of my new old stock gauges that have never seen the light of day. Bill says the fluorescent paint will still be dead in spite of the gauge having been in a box its whole life, but we shall see. Original: An original gauge with the fluorescent paint surely dead. Testors: A gauge with Testors "Fluorescent Orange" paint that Bill says is only bright orange but does not fluoresce. And, it is heavy so changes the gauge's reading. HiPo: One gauge with Bill's fluorescent paint on the needle. But that will take a while, so you might try the approach above.

That's a good video.

Catalog shows: 88/ E-F250/350 8 460 EFI E7TZ 9424-G Lower I'll check the two I have in the morning and let you know. And, you are right, it was a '95 F450 so may have a different lower plenum. But I know the uppers are the same as they have the same ID number on them, although different casting date codes.

Difference? What difference? I have a '90 and a '94 - I think. (Was the truck Jim parted out a '94?) Let's find out the differences as I already have two so probably don't need another.

It actually took a lot more than media blasting to get mine clean. I used the Simple Green in the parts washer and a few different brushes to get a lot of it. Then the CRC brake cleaner, which got some more. So I tried the O'Reilly's brake cleaner, which got more. All in all I used way more than a can of brake cleaner on that. And then I took it to the blast cabinet.

Bill - You are hard on clutches! Hope you aren't as hard on upper plenums. Here's yours and mine out on the town for the evening. Brandon did the blasting honors on yours, and I did mine - as well as removed the lump. You can read all about the lumpectomy in the EFI For Big Blue thread, along with a discussion of how I plan to powder coat them. Let me know if you agree or not.

Did a bit toward Big Blue's EFI today - performed a lumpectomy. Had an upper plenum that had the EGR bolts twisted off, and since I'm not going to run EGR I removed the EGR valve's mount. Here's how.... First, I used a hack saw and removed the lump as close as I could get to the plenum itself: Then I mounted the plenum on the mill's table: And after many passes I had it down to this: The next step was to tap the passage 3/8" NPT. That normally takes a 37/64" (.578") tap drill. Unfortunately the passage is 5/8" (.613"), so full threads aren't possible. And, in my experience with oversized passages and soft material it is critical that the tap be held precisely aligned with the hole or the threads are easily messed up. (Don't ask, please. ) So, I mounted the plenum on the mill's table again, lined the spindle up with the hole using a drill bit, and then chased the tap with a centering tool: And, here are the resulting threads. Deep enough to seal for vacuum, especially using PTFE compound, but I wouldn't do this under much pressure. Here's the plug run in pretty snugly. I think it'll be just about flush when it is put in after the plenum is finished. And then I did a bit of media blasting to get the plenum clean both inside and out. Here's a shot after both this plenum and Bill's were blasted: But I wanted the inside to be clean as well since I'm not running that black, sooty, exhaust gas through it, so I cleaned and blasted the inside as well. Here's a shot of the upper end: And here's a shot from the bottom end: Now I need to clean and blast the lower plenum so I can powder coat all three of them. Powder coating aluminum is time-consuming as it has lots and lots of pores, and there's always lots of gunk in them. If you don't get the gunk out before placing the part in the oven at 420 degrees the gunk vaporizes and blows the powder off, ruining the finish. (Again, please don't ask.) So, you have to clean the part as best you can before blasting to ensure the media stays clean, and then wash the part in brake cleaner to get everything off that you can and pop it in the oven. Two hours at 420 degrees does the gunk in and then once you pull the part out you have to wash it in brake cleaner again and then ensure all the brake cleaner has vaporized by heating the part with the heat gun. Only then you can apply the powder. In this case I think I'll use Eastwood's Silver Lining instead of clear-coating them. The problem is that it is really hard to get cast aluminum an even color, so I'd rather use a powder that will hide the color differences. Another option is to use Eastwood's Blasted Aluminum. However, it has a texture to it and will catch grease, so I'm leaning to Silver Lining - like I used on Dad's front driveshafts:

I would say that's what it is. The question is why it is an E4 when the catalog shows E8. My guess is that they revised it in 1988, hence the E8. And since my earliest catalog was published in 1982 and my next one was published in 1989 I can't prove it as nothing I have would show the E4.

First, most forums don't have the smarts to figure out the orientation of pictures. But if you open the pic with something like Photoshop it'll figure it out and all you have to do then is to save it. As for the hose, it should be one piece, and it is just a section of hose cut from a reel of it. Looks like 9/16" ID and about 16" long from the catalog.

Got it, and will follow up. Thanks! Brandon also mentioned Jegs and Summit. I got on Jegs site this morning and couldn't find a way to email them, so I guess I need to call. And, I need to check Summit.

Love the truck! The short-beds just look so nice, well proportioned. And that one looks really clean. I'm not sure it has been restored, just very well maintained. On lighting upgrades, I have a thread on that called, oddly enough, Lighting Upgrades. But that doesn't speak to the dash/instrument lighting, and that is covered a bit in the thread Conversation With Bill O'Neil - Mr HiPo Parts. I've not gotten the LED samples from Bill yet so can't tell you how good they are. However, I will remind him and see if I can get them to test and let y'all know. I think white ones would be preferable to the blue ones I currently have, and his that are designed for "around" lighting rather than "projecting" should be the best way to go. As for the German, thanks for the clarification. I no just enough to get me into trouble, but am happy to learn.

I wasn't to concerned with the fiberglass fenders...they seem to be relatively easy to come by. However, if I did decide to copy them, there are lots of fiberglass shops around here with all the boat building. My curiosity was with the Flareside steel bed sides. That is what I was wondering if they could be reproduced, even without the inner fender "hump". As for the roll bar, no I haven't done anything at all. That truck is 2 hours away, and I'll have to get back over that way and ask about it again. I'd like to have a little better look at it to see if there are any other parts that can be salvaged. Since the people were not home when I was there, I didn't want to dig around too much. On a another good note in keeping with the theme of this thread, I did get an email from a guy this morning that says he has TWO Flareside parts trucks...one 4x2, and one 4x4. The fact that they're parts trucks kinda pre-determines their condition, but he says one of them has some decent bed parts on it.

That's progress, and as Jim says, progress is good. On the driveshaft, don't just check the u-joints. Some of the driveshafts have a splined section that is supposed to be lubed every so many miles, but rarely are. I've found them so badly worn that they were causing Bad Bad Bad Vibrations at certain throttle settings. One way to give the splines a cursory check is to push sideways on the driveshaft right at the splined section. There should be no give side-to-side, and if there is I'd pull the shaft and check the splines.

Amen, brother! Just about 4 years ago we cleaned out my parent's house. They were products of the Depression and threw nothing away. So I fully understand. In your case you get to move some of that stuff twice - out of the family home and then into the new home. Fun.